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Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8282		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Müs [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... -throw-up/

Quote:
GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said today that watching John F. Kennedy’s speech to the Baptist ministers in Houston in 1960 made him want to “throw up.”
“To say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?” Santorum said.
“That makes me throw up and it should make every American who is seen from the president, someone who is now trying to tell people of faith that you will do what the government says, we are going to impose our values on you, not that you can’t come to the public square and argue against it, but now we’re going to turn around and say we’re going to impose our values from the government on people of faith, which of course is the next logical step when people of faith, at least according to John Kennedy, have no role in the public square,”


Image

How is this guy even a viable candidate anymore?
Author:  Raell [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Huh...

Watching the video leads me to believe one thing.

He is **** retarded.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Wait, what?

Despite the fact that I believe he misinterpreted what Kennedy was trying to say, I think he's right in his explanation. There is no freedom from religion, there is freedom of religion.

Faith in the public square is fine.
Author:  Rynar [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Arathain:

Yet I think you'll agree that religious values shouldn't be codified into Law, as that would indicate the establishment of a state religion.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
We need to separate Kennedy the citizen from Kennedy the leader of the free world.

Is it a good thing for leader of the free world to say your opinion doesn't matter, I don't want to talk to you, and I want to remove you from the public forum to a significant chuck of the population.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rynar wrote:
Arathain:

Yet I think you'll agree that religious values shouldn't be codified into Law, as that would indicate the establishment of a state religion.


Yes, and he's not suggesting that. The only thing he said (on Meet the Press) was that it's ok for religion to shape a candidate's views and outlook on the world.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Rorinthas wrote:
We need to separate Kennedy the citizen from Kenndy the leader of the free world.

Is it a good thing for leader of the free world to say your opinion doesn't matter, I don't want to talk to you, and I want to remove you from the public forum?


No, which was Santorum's point.
Author:  FarSky [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
You know what makes me want to throw up? Rick Santorum.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rynar wrote:
Arathain:

Yet I think you'll agree that religious values shouldn't be codified into Law, as that would indicate the establishment of a state religion.


Almost anything a religious person considers important can be in some way called a "religious value". I oppose stealing and murder in part because they are prohibited by God. These are religious values for me. They're values for other reasons too, but they are religious. I favor private charity, because Jesus called on us to give of ourselves. Me calling for more private charity and less government handouts could be a "religious value".

I'm sure you have perfectly good reasons why all of the above would still be acceptable. The problem is that vague terms like "religious values" are used by certain people because they want to be able to designate anything they don't like as a religious value.

The fact is that we don't inquire into people's motivations for their votes, and we have freedom of speech, as well as free exercise, in addition to protection against establishment. People can vote any way they like for any reason they like, and they can attempt to sway people using religious arguments.

The only thing that shouldn't be codified into law are religious practices; i.e. things actually involving worship, demonstration of belief, etc. Other things that have religious overtones, such as a day of public rest, do not constitute establishment. They may be inadvisable as policy, and they may be outside the powers of government for reasons other than establishment of religion (for example, the Federal government cannot ban the eating of pork because it can't regulate what you eat, not because it's a Jewish dietary law), but extending beyond actual religious practices inevitably leads to people claiming something is "establishment of religion" just because religious people favor it.

This is especially dangerous when you consider that atheists refuse to acknowledge that atheism is a religion. All too many would be all to happy to have government of, by, and for the atheists, and to establish atheism because "it's not a religion."
Author:  Jasmy [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
FarSky wrote:
You know what makes me want to throw up? Rick Santorum.


/seconded
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
And why exactly is the Catholic Church embracing the Republican candidate after all these decades being the in the Democratic party's corner?

Time's have changed dear hearts.

And they hate Obama.
Author:  Rynar [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Because the udeology and goals of political parties change more often and more rapidly than those of religion, politics generally being for the young and religion for the old.

Kennedy would have been callled a Nel-Con today.
Author:  Raell [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Someone who was alive then correct me if I am wrong. BUT...wasn't there a bunch of ****/fear of Kennedy because he was Catholic? That he pretty much had to take this stance to get anywhere?
Author:  Micheal [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, and yes. He had to show he didn't blindly follow the Pope's direction. No one wanted a President who followed the orders of a religious leader. Hopefully, that is still the case, but i douby iy.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
We need to separate Kennedy the citizen from Kenndy the leader of the free world.

Is it a good thing for leader of the free world to say your opinion doesn't matter, I don't want to talk to you, and I want to remove you from the public forum?


No, which was Santorum's point.


Which isn't what the JFK speech was about.

And what Santorum doesn't seem to get is that he has to lead all Americans. Not just the Jesusy ones.
Author:  Talya [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Müs wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
We need to separate Kennedy the citizen from Kenndy the leader of the free world.

Is it a good thing for leader of the free world to say your opinion doesn't matter, I don't want to talk to you, and I want to remove you from the public forum?


No, which was Santorum's point.


Which isn't what the JFK speech was about.

And what Santorum doesn't seem to get is that he has to lead all Americans. Not just the Jesusy ones.


He has to lead the non-Jesusy ones to Jesus.
Author:  Aizle [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Talya wrote:
He has to lead the non-Jesusy ones to Jesus.


**** him and the *** he rode in on.
Author:  Talya [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Aizle wrote:
Talya wrote:
He has to lead the non-Jesusy ones to Jesus.


**** him and the *** he rode in on.


I see what you did there.
Author:  RangerDave [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Micheal wrote:
And why exactly is the Catholic Church embracing the Republican candidate after all these decades being the in the Democratic party's corner?

Time's have changed dear hearts.

And they hate Obama.


I don't think that's it. I think it's because the current Catholic hierarchy and the small minority of political-activist Catholics place abortion and sexual morality (as they define it) above all else. Hence, they favor an expressly "Catholic" candidate who supports preemptive war, torture and the death penalty and vociferously opposes and denigrates governmental charity. Most American Catholics, however, don't actually share those priorities and thus don't support Santorum.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Müs wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
We need to separate Kennedy the citizen from Kenndy the leader of the free world.

Is it a good thing for leader of the free world to say your opinion doesn't matter, I don't want to talk to you, and I want to remove you from the public forum?


No, which was Santorum's point.


Which isn't what the JFK speech was about.

And what Santorum doesn't seem to get is that he has to lead all Americans. Not just the Jesusy ones.


Arathain wrote:
Despite the fact that I believe he misinterpreted what Kennedy was trying to say,


Arathain wrote:
Oh - **** Santorum. If he gets nominated, I'll vote for Obama.


So... yeah. Right there with you.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Aizle wrote:
Talya wrote:
He has to lead the non-Jesusy ones to Jesus.


**** him andin the *** he rode in on.


FTFY ;)

After all, we had to get the term Santorumized from *somewhere*.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Religion Makes Me Want to Puke.
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Müs wrote:

Which isn't what the JFK speech was about.

And what Santorum doesn't seem to get is that he has to lead all Americans. Not just the Jesusy ones.


Arathain wrote:
Despite the fact that I believe he misinterpreted what Kennedy was trying to say,


Arathain wrote:
Oh - **** Santorum. If he gets nominated, I'll vote for Obama.


So... yeah. Right there with you.


Fair enough :)
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