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| 9-11 suspects to be tried in New York https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=837 |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 9-11 suspects to be tried in New York |
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... -trial-ny/ Real smart. If any of them get off on technicalities and end up killing other Americans..... |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
you mean actually use due process??? *gasp* |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
TheRiov wrote: you mean actually use due process??? *gasp* No, I mean try them in military court, which would more likely prevent a lot of bad things from happening..... |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
They weren't part of our military or part of another. So military court is out. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: They weren't part of our military or part of another. So military court is out. Seems to me it's been the military holding them..... |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Beryllin wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: They weren't part of our military or part of another. So military court is out. Seems to me it's been the military holding them..... Yes which is incorrect. It isn't rational to argue that since one thing that has been done in the past which is wrong then we should of course continue on with that wrong thing. This is an appeal to tradition. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Try them in a civilian court. Make it the media circus it is going to be anyway. Let the whole world watch it. Be as open and fair as we can make the spectacle. Then, if and when they are found guilty, lock them away until the day they die, be it God's will or the State's. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Micheal wrote: Try them in a civilian court. Make it the media circus it is going to be anyway. Let the whole world watch it. Be as open and fair as we can make the spectacle. Then, if and when they are found guilty, lock them away until the day they die, be it God's will or the State's. Civilian trial is fraught with peril, and should the peril come home to roost, the protests and such will make the anger of the so-called tea-baggers seem like a bunch of stoned hippies holding hands and singing love songs. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The peril of revealing insuficient evidence exists? |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is an appeal waiting to happen. What dumbass thought that trying in NY was a good idea? That's just begging for an appeal based on a tainted jury pool. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: The peril of revealing insuficient evidence exists? How about the peril of a judge throwing out all the evidence and setting a terrorist free to kill more Americans? |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Beryllin wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: The peril of revealing insuficient evidence exists? How about the peril of a judge throwing out all the evidence and setting a terrorist free to kill more Americans? And you believe a judge will do so based on his or her whim? Or are you worried that tehre is sifficient actual reason for this to occur that it may? |
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| Author: | DFK! [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Kaffis Mark V wrote: What dumbass thought that trying in NY was a good idea? This guy. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
NY has jurisdiction, so does Pa and Washington DC. Why would it not be in one of those three? |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: Beryllin wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: The peril of revealing insuficient evidence exists? How about the peril of a judge throwing out all the evidence and setting a terrorist free to kill more Americans? And you believe a judge will do so based on his or her whim? Or are you worried that tehre is sifficient actual reason for this to occur that it may? I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Uh arent we forgetting that the purpose of a court is to determine guilt or innocence? If you've presupposed they're guilty then of course you dont want them to 'escape' |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. Appeal to consequences. classic logic flaw. And to use that logic, if I accuse you of plotting to kill millions, then you too could be tried without a fair trial.... the theoretical consequences still dont rob you of your rights. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
TheRiov wrote: Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. Appeal to consequences. classic logic flaw. And to use that logic, if I accuse you of plotting to kill millions, then you too could be tried without a fair trial.... the theoretical consequences still dont rob you of your rights. That's all well and good, until theory butts heads with reality. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. That's because you've already decided that he's guilty, and that due process shouldn't apply to him because he's not a US citizen, and therefore doesn't qualify as a person. If these people were Americans accused of the same thing you'd be livid at the indefinite detainment and possible torture, and be demanding they get off scot free simply because of this. |
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| Author: | Leshani [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
screw it give them a change a venue, Let them be tried in Arizona or Texas. I'm sure we can make it a short trial. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Xequecal wrote: Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. That's because you've already decided that he's guilty, and that due process shouldn't apply to him because he's not a US citizen, and therefore doesn't qualify as a person. If these people were Americans accused of the same thing you'd be livid at the indefinite detainment and possible torture, and be demanding they get off scot free simply because of this. Then you don't know me at all, if that's what you believe. I want them tried, to establish guilt or innocence. If they are actually innocent, set them free. But if they are set free but weren't exactly innocent, then at some point they attack innocent people, what do you say to the families of the dead? "Oops"? The families are the ones who'll be livid, and justifiably so, because we have them in hand now. Of course, none of that may happen. But imo, it's an unjustifiable risk. Give them a trial. In a military court, and be done with it. |
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| Author: | Monte [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. For my part, I am not so afraid of these men as to sacrifice due process of law in the name of fear. Yes, they may get released. And that would be a tragedy. However, a greater tragedy would be to set aside our way of life because it's hard to do otherwise. To me, that represents a greater horror than seeing these men walk free. Also, it represents a greater victory for our enemy. |
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| Author: | Monte [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Leshani wrote: screw it give them a change a venue, Let them be tried in Arizona or Texas. I'm sure we can make it a short trial. Those two states were not the target of the crime. New York has claim, in my opinion, the strongest claim. |
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| Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Monte wrote: Beryllin wrote: I believe that enough bad things can happen that it's not worth the risk to try them in civilian court. For my part, I am not so afraid of these men as to sacrifice due process of law in the name of fear. Yes, they may get released. And that would be a tragedy. However, a greater tragedy would be to set aside our way of life because it's hard to do otherwise. To me, that represents a greater horror than seeing these men walk free. Also, it represents a greater victory for our enemy. It's easy to stand on such principles for yourself, but it's another matter to ask other people to sacrifice for your principles. If you line up with your family and volunteer to be the victims, that's one thing. But suppose it's members of my family that dies? I have to pay the price for your principles? |
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| Author: | Leshani [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's way I suggested a change of venue, it a tool that can be used to move a trail to a neutral location. When you can reasonably ascertain that a non biased Jury can't be seated, and is allowed for in the court process. |
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