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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:01 pm 
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http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fre ... ell-duhhhh

Someone recently referred me to a book that they thought I'd like. It's a 2009 book, aimed toward teachers of grades K through 12, titled Why Don't Students Like School? It's by a cognitive scientist named Daniel T. Willingham, and it has received rave reviews by countless people involved in the school system. Google the title and author and you'll find pages and pages of doting reviews and nobody pointing out that the book totally and utterly fails to answer the question posed by its title.

Willingham's thesis is that students don't like school because their teachers don't have a full understanding of certain cognitive principles and therefore don't teach as well as they could. They don't present material in ways that appeal best to students' minds. Presumably, if teachers followed Willingham's advice and used the latest information cognitive science has to offer about how the mind works, students would love school.

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What is giftedness?
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Talk about avoiding the elephant in the room!

Ask any schoolchild why they don't like school and they'll tell you. "School is prison." They may not use those words, because they're too polite, or maybe they've already been brainwashed to believe that school is for their own good and therefore it can't be prison. But decipher their words and the translation generally is, "School is prison."

Let me say that a few more times: School is prison. School is prison. School is prison. School is prison. School is prison.

Willingham surely knows that school is prison. He can't help but know it; everyone knows it. But here he writes a whole book entitled "Why Don't Students Like School," and not once does he suggest that just possibly they don't like school because they like freedom, and in school they are not free.

I shouldn't be too harsh on Willingham. He's not the only one avoiding this particular elephant in the room. Everyone who has ever been to school knows that school is prison, but almost nobody says it. It's not polite to say it. We all tiptoe around this truth, that school is prison, because telling the truth makes us all seem so mean. How could all these nice people be sending their children to prison for a good share of the first 18 years of their lives? How could our democratic government, which is founded on principles of freedom and self-determination, make laws requiring children and adolescents to spend a good portion of their days in prison? It's unthinkable, and so we try hard to avoid thinking it. Or, if we think it, we at least don't say it. When we talk about what's wrong with schools we pretend not to see the elephant, and we talk instead about some of the dander that's gathered around the elephant's periphery.

But I think it is time that we say it out loud. School is prison.

If you think school is not prison, please explain the difference.

The only difference I can think of is that to get into prison you have to commit a crime, but they put you in school just because of your age. In other respects school and prison are the same. In both places you are stripped of your freedom and dignity. You are told exactly what you must do, and you are punished for failing to comply. Actually, in school you must spend more time doing exactly what you are told to do than is true in adult prisons, so in that sense school is worse than prison.

At some level of their consciousness, everyone who has ever been to school knows that it is prison. How could they not know? But people rationalize it by saying (not usually in these words) that children need this particular kind of prison and may even like it if the prison is run well. If children don't like school, according to this rationalization, it's not because school is prison, but is because the wardens are not kind enough, or amusing enough, or smart enough to keep the children's minds occupied appropriately.

But anyone who knows anything about children and who allows himself or herself to think honestly should be able to see through this rationalization. Children, like all human beings, crave freedom. They hate to have their freedom restricted. To a large extent they use their freedom precisely to educate themselves. They are biologically prepared to do that. That's what many of my previous posts have been about (for an overview, see my July 16, 2008, post). Children explore and play, freely, in ways designed to learn about the physical and social world in which they are developing. In school they are told they must stop following their interests and, instead, do just what the teacher is telling them they must do. That is why they don't like school.

As a society we could, perhaps, rationalize forcing children to go to school if we could prove that they need this particular kind of prison in order to gain the skills and knowledge necessary to become good citizens, to be happy in adulthood, and to get good jobs. Many people, perhaps most people, think this has been proven, because the educational establishment talks about it as if it has. But, in truth, it has not been proven at all.

In fact, for decades, families who have chosen to "unschool" their children, or to send them to the Sudbury Valley School (which is, essentially, an "unschool" school) have been proving the opposite (see, for example, my August 13, 2008, post). Children who are provided the tools for learning, including access to a wide range of other people from whom to learn, learn what they need to know--and much more--through their own self-directed play and exploration. There is no evidence at all that children who are sent to prison come out better than those who are provided the tools and allowed to use them freely. How, then, can we continue to rationalize sending children to prison?

I think the educational establishment deliberately avoids looking honestly at the experiences of unschoolers and Sudbury Valley because they are afraid of what they will find. If school as prison isn't necessary, then what becomes of this whole huge enterprise, which employs so many and is so fully embedded in the culture (see my posts on Why Schools Are What they Are)?

Willingham's book is in a long tradition of attempts to bring the "latest findings" of psychology to bear on issues of education. All of those efforts have avoided the elephant and focused instead on trying to clean up the dander. But as long as the elephant is there, the dander just keeps piling up.

In a future post I'll talk about some of the history of psychology's failed attempts to improve education. Every new generation of parents, and every new batch of fresh and eager teachers, hears or reads about some "new theory" or "new findings" from psychology that, at long last, will make schools more fun and improve learning. But none of it has worked. And none of it will until people face the truth: Children hate school because in school they are not free. Joyful learning requires freedom.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Is this a quote, or you talking?

You really need to identify that.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:20 pm 
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This is the problem perceiving education as a right, and not a privilege. After a while people start to take it for granted.

Kids see most chores as a prison too, why? Cause it is human nature to be lazy. School is not just a place to teach you knowledge, it is also a place to teach you how to put in hard work to get somewhere.

Of course keep in mind I don’t agree on mandatory schooling after 16 (year 10) when the kid is old enough to chose their own life. But before it… damn son, your parents own your arse and you better as hell do what they ask ya! (provided it’s not illegal)

I think the problem with schools atm is not that it’s boring or a prison (it was boring before the author was born and it will continue to be boring after he’s dead). But that the kids have a warped conception that the teachers want them there to fill some sort of quota, and not that they themselves want to be there to learn the knowledge necessary to prepare them for a life.

Make learning a privilege, give teachers the ability to kick them out on their arse if they mess up, and don’t support them later in life when they try to live off other people’s generosity. All you need is 1 good generation of that before these people’s kids will learn from their parents the importance of a good education and will actively seek it out.

Why do you think the chinese kids are so good at studying? It’s cause we hear on a daily basis the crap our parents had to go through just to get a crappy education. We’re taught that learning is a privilege and we’re taught personal sacrifices and efforts are what makes us better in the end.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:29 pm 
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DFK!, its quoted, the link takes you to the article.

I liked school myself, but that was back in the day when California had the best public school system of any State in the nation. Back before Proposition 13.

These days, I more than understand the lack of resources that make public school a thing to be endured rather than a welcoming fountain of knowledge to be shared and enjoyed.

That is why my kid went to private school.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:40 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Is this a quote, or you talking?

You really need to identify that.


I agree.

Psychology Today

Quote:
Someone recently referred me to a book that they thought I'd like. It's a 2009 book, aimed toward teachers of grades K through 12, titled Why Don't Students Like School? It's by a cognitive scientist named Daniel T. Willingham, and it has received rave reviews by countless people involved in the school system. Google the title and author and you'll find pages and pages of doting reviews and nobody pointing out that the book totally and utterly fails to answer the question posed by its title.

Willingham's thesis is that students don't like school because their teachers don't have a full understanding of certain cognitive principles and therefore don't teach as well as they could. They don't present material in ways that appeal best to students' minds. Presumably, if teachers followed Willingham's advice and used the latest information cognitive science has to offer about how the mind works, students would love school.

Related Articles
I Want my Jetpack!
Why scientists should be allowed to take brain-enhancing drugs
What is giftedness?
Should High School Start at 11 AM? (Part 2)
Questioning Schizophrenia Treatment
Talk about avoiding the elephant in the room!

Ask any schoolchild why they don't like school and they'll tell you. "School is prison." They may not use those words, because they're too polite, or maybe they've already been brainwashed to believe that school is for their own good and therefore it can't be prison. But decipher their words and the translation generally is, "School is prison."

Let me say that a few more times: School is prison. School is prison. School is prison. School is prison. School is prison.

Willingham surely knows that school is prison. He can't help but know it; everyone knows it. But here he writes a whole book entitled "Why Don't Students Like School," and not once does he suggest that just possibly they don't like school because they like freedom, and in school they are not free.

I shouldn't be too harsh on Willingham. He's not the only one avoiding this particular elephant in the room. Everyone who has ever been to school knows that school is prison, but almost nobody says it. It's not polite to say it. We all tiptoe around this truth, that school is prison, because telling the truth makes us all seem so mean. How could all these nice people be sending their children to prison for a good share of the first 18 years of their lives? How could our democratic government, which is founded on principles of freedom and self-determination, make laws requiring children and adolescents to spend a good portion of their days in prison? It's unthinkable, and so we try hard to avoid thinking it. Or, if we think it, we at least don't say it. When we talk about what's wrong with schools we pretend not to see the elephant, and we talk instead about some of the dander that's gathered around the elephant's periphery.

But I think it is time that we say it out loud. School is prison.

If you think school is not prison, please explain the difference.

The only difference I can think of is that to get into prison you have to commit a crime, but they put you in school just because of your age. In other respects school and prison are the same. In both places you are stripped of your freedom and dignity. You are told exactly what you must do, and you are punished for failing to comply. Actually, in school you must spend more time doing exactly what you are told to do than is true in adult prisons, so in that sense school is worse than prison.

At some level of their consciousness, everyone who has ever been to school knows that it is prison. How could they not know? But people rationalize it by saying (not usually in these words) that children need this particular kind of prison and may even like it if the prison is run well. If children don't like school, according to this rationalization, it's not because school is prison, but is because the wardens are not kind enough, or amusing enough, or smart enough to keep the children's minds occupied appropriately.

But anyone who knows anything about children and who allows himself or herself to think honestly should be able to see through this rationalization. Children, like all human beings, crave freedom. They hate to have their freedom restricted. To a large extent they use their freedom precisely to educate themselves. They are biologically prepared to do that. That's what many of my previous posts have been about (for an overview, see my July 16, 2008, post). Children explore and play, freely, in ways designed to learn about the physical and social world in which they are developing. In school they are told they must stop following their interests and, instead, do just what the teacher is telling them they must do. That is why they don't like school.

As a society we could, perhaps, rationalize forcing children to go to school if we could prove that they need this particular kind of prison in order to gain the skills and knowledge necessary to become good citizens, to be happy in adulthood, and to get good jobs. Many people, perhaps most people, think this has been proven, because the educational establishment talks about it as if it has. But, in truth, it has not been proven at all.

In fact, for decades, families who have chosen to "unschool" their children, or to send them to the Sudbury Valley School (which is, essentially, an "unschool" school) have been proving the opposite (see, for example, my August 13, 2008, post). Children who are provided the tools for learning, including access to a wide range of other people from whom to learn, learn what they need to know--and much more--through their own self-directed play and exploration. There is no evidence at all that children who are sent to prison come out better than those who are provided the tools and allowed to use them freely. How, then, can we continue to rationalize sending children to prison?

I think the educational establishment deliberately avoids looking honestly at the experiences of unschoolers and Sudbury Valley because they are afraid of what they will find. If school as prison isn't necessary, then what becomes of this whole huge enterprise, which employs so many and is so fully embedded in the culture (see my posts on Why Schools Are What they Are)?

Willingham's book is in a long tradition of attempts to bring the "latest findings" of psychology to bear on issues of education. All of those efforts have avoided the elephant and focused instead on trying to clean up the dander. But as long as the elephant is there, the dander just keeps piling up.

In a future post I'll talk about some of the history of psychology's failed attempts to improve education. Every new generation of parents, and every new batch of fresh and eager teachers, hears or reads about some "new theory" or "new findings" from psychology that, at long last, will make schools more fun and improve learning. But none of it has worked. And none of it will until people face the truth: Children hate school because in school they are not free. Joyful learning requires freedom.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:10 pm 
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I'd have thought

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Related Articles
I Want my Jetpack!
Why scientists should be allowed to take brain-enhancing drugs
What is giftedness?
Should High School Start at 11 AM? (Part 2)
Questioning Schizophrenia Treatment
Talk about avoiding the elephant in the room!


would have given it away. Alternatively our muppet could have been experiements with things he should not be allowed near, considering his gun totting tendencies. (especially the last one hehe... )


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:47 pm 
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I had a daydream the other day of a small red muppet coming up to me, giving me a big snugglywumpkins hug, then pulling out a pistol and shooting me between the eyes. Nap over.

Sometimes I hate it when I remember things like this.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:43 am 
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It is highly unlikely I would do the second part.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:08 am 
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In my opinion it all comes down to respect. If the management of the school treats the kids with respect, they will get respect back from at least most of them. Even though public high school may technically be a prison they can do a lot to make it not feel like one. This extends to jobs too. Even if you're essentially enslaved to a shitty low-paying job for whatever reason, if your boss treats you with respect it won't be so shitty.

I went to two high schools growing up. The first one was a stereotypical prison. You were not allowed to leave the building ever. You needed a pass to be in the hall, documentation to be in the library, hell you needed permission to use the **** bathroom even during pass periods. Misbehavior by a few students was generally dealt with by group punishment of the entire student body. They even installed **** metal detectors after the Columbine scare. This was in high suburbia where there might be one murder every 25 years. As a result, most students absolutely resented the management and there were lots of "pranks" that were basically large scale property destruction. My sophomore year the fire alarm was pulled 26 times in one week. They reacted to this forcing everyone to stay in school for an extra hour after school normally ended. I didn't even know this was legal. They had the police camp out and arrest anyone trying to leave. Some of these students had jobs, and they got arrested trying to go to work. I am really glad I didn't have to spend junior year there. I've heard they've cleaned up since then with new management, but I don't know. This wasn't a poor inner city school either, it was a relatively wealthy suburban neighborhood.

The second high school I went to (also public) was far better. As long as you made it to class on time they didn't care what you did or where you went. During homeroom you could go to the library or lunchroom or even just leave for 45 minutes if you had a car, they did not care, they figured anyone blowing off studying would pay for it with worse grades. As a result, there were no incidents in the two years I was there.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:11 am 
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Having to work for a living is prison, too...a far more damning one. As adults, many of us think back at school and wonder why we didn't appreciate it more, perhaps even remember it fondly and miss it when at the time, we'd have done anything to get out of it.

Life doesn't get easier as you get older.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:24 am 
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Talya wrote:
Having to work for a living is prison, too...a far more damning one. As adults, many of us think back at school and wonder why we didn't appreciate it more, perhaps even remember it fondly and miss it when at the time, we'd have done anything to get out of it.

Life doesn't get easier as you get older.


That depends a lot on the job you do. I was a teacher for a little while. I also worked in a prison. Working in the prison was less like being in prison than teaching. We did have a little saying for the inmates though. Whent hey'd talk about how easy we had it because we only had to be there 8 hours a day, we'd always point out that whenever we left, we knew we were coming back. They got to leave and never come back again when their time was up (theoretically, of course).

Part of the reason I like law enforcement is being outside and moving around and seeing the world go by while I'm working. That was one of the worst parts of being in Iraq- sitting in front of a computer with very little going on for 12+ hours every single day, waiting for something to happen, with sandbags over the windows. That's why a lot of people like to go on convoys even though its dangerous - if the only things you see for a year are your workplace, the chow hall, your room, the laundry and the chapel, you start to get a little stir-crazy.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:59 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
It is highly unlikely I would do the second part.


Red muppet
1. coming up to me,
2. giving me a big snugglywumpkins hug,
3. then pulling out a pistol and shooting me between the eyes

Eeep!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:23 am 
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Pretty interesting article. I was thinking about work being a prison too while reading it, although work is a choice and you get paid for it. School, you pay them and they give you homework.

I'd have to read what he suggests as an alternative before I had a real strong opinion on this one.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:16 am 
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Its an interesting condition that the big players in the construction/design of public schools also tend to have expertise in prison construction/design.


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Oops, wrong one to post to =)~


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I'd say it depends as much upon the person as the job, Diamondeye. I'd be mostly content living indoors all the time so long as I had my internet access. Living in the northern USA or Canada causes one to either lose their sanity and enjoy cold temperatures, or enjoy spending as much time as possible indoors for the majority of the year. :p

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Talya wrote:
I'd say it depends as much upon the person as the job, Diamondeye.


That seemed so obvious as to not require pointing out.

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I'd be mostly content living indoors all the time so long as I had my internet access. Living in the northern USA or Canada causes one to either lose their sanity and enjoy cold temperatures, or enjoy spending as much time as possible indoors for the majority of the year. :p


Some people, yes. I'd sure as **** hate being that cold. On the other hand I could easily work in the Border Patrol on the southern border where it's hot. Heat is uncomfortable and makes you slow down, cold hurts. I hate being cold, especially my feet, and I've had to do it already too many times.

Anyhow, the point was that work can be a prison if you are doing it just for the money and really dislike having to actually do it. If you enjoy your work, it won't be, usually.

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I like cold better than heat, but not by much. San Antonio *sucked* this summer. 105 for like 54 days in a row or some such. bleh.

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Yeah, cold sucks. I had to turn on the heat in my house a couple days ago. It got down to 68 degrees inside. Brrrrrrr. :P


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Heh. It's pretty nice here in Newark. Wet, but not cold. We managed to get out of Maine without it being super cold, too.

Newark, however, sucks the big one. Getting around in the city here is hell.

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I'm not sure exactly what you're proposing changing elms. At the elementary levels most children don't know what they want or need to learn. So having them choose is kind of difficult and counter productive. I believe that children should receive some sort of basic standardized education (what, from whom and, at whose expense is debatable). If you give children a "choice" to go to school they'll likely choose no to their own detriment.

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Where did I propose anything?

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Elmarnieh wrote:
Where did I propose anything?


That may be why he's unclear what you're proposing.

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*scratches head*
If I didn't propose anything why are people asking me what I proposed?

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Elmarnieh wrote:
I proposed


I said no.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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