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Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a crime
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9165		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  RangerDave [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a crime
If someone reports a crime and, in the process, is identified as being an illegal immigrant, should that person be deported?
Author:  Lenas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Depends.
Author:  Müs [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes. Illegals should be deported.
Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Reporting a crime demonstrates knowledge of the law on some level, and a basic understanding of U.S. law is a requirement for citizenship. I am therefore willing to accept an illegal immigrant reporting a crime as a step towards seeking to obtain legal residency.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think illegal immigrants should ever be deported. It's certainly a waste of money.
Author:  Mookhow [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
If someone is deported because he reported a crime, that will lead to illegals not reporting crimes. This will then cause an upturn in burglaries and home invasions once criminals realize that homes of illegals are free pickings. And that will make neighborhoods worse off overall.

*I should get a tobaggan for this slippery slope. Wheee!!!!
Author:  darksiege [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Reporting a crime demonstrates knowledge of the law on some level, and a basic understanding of U.S. law is a requirement for citizenship. I am therefore willing to accept an illegal immigrant reporting a crime as a step towards seeking to obtain legal residency.


This, if an illegal immigrant is discovered once they report a crime, I think it should be used to begin their process of becoming a legal citizen.

"Look sir, we found you are an illegal resident, but since you have a basic understanding we would like to offer you the chance to become a legal citizen."

In that case allow the state itself to sponsor them for citizenship, and begin the process.

If they decline, then give them the boot to their country of origin.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
I don't see that reporting a crime demonstrates any basic understanding of law that any other immigrant doesn't have. They do, in fact, have laws in the countries illegal immigrants come from against common crimes we would expect people to report.

As for it discouraging them, well, A) they wouldn't get deported because they reported the crime; they'd get deported because they were here illegally and B) if reporting a crime led to starting a path to citizenship, then that would cause illegals to report all sorts of "crimes" in order to avoid getting deported.

Also, it's a common myth that illegal immigrants necessarily want to become citizens. Large numbers do not. They just want to come here for a few years, make a little money, and then go back. Some want to stay, but usually those ones are the ones that would have an easier path to citizenship anyhow if they only pursued it; instead they just want to sneak in because it's quicker and easier. As a general rule, however, when interviewing an illegal immigrant for processing, they will tell you "two or three years" when you ask them how long they planned to stay here.

A more appropriate poll question would be "should illegal immigrants be sent to an immigration judge when they are reporting a crime?" Unless they reported a crime within 14 days of entry and 100 miles of the border, they don't just get deported anyhow. They go to an immigration judge. That doesn't even necessarily involve them going to jail until they see the judge; for illegals that have been here for some time and are otherwise not criminals, they can just be given a court date and walking papers. The walking papers give them legal status until they see the judge.
Author:  Midgen [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Then there's that whole 'paying taxes' thing...
Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
If someone reported a crime and had a bench warrant for trespassing, should they be arrested?
Author:  Lenas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Midgen wrote:
Then there's that whole 'paying taxes' thing...


My wife paid taxes while she was still an illegal immigrant. It was under a fake social security number, but she was still paying.
Author:  Midgen [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Most don't
Author:  Lenas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
That's true. Would it change anyone's opinion that voted "yes" if the illegal did indeed pay taxes?
Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Does it make any difference if the trespasser is paying taxes?
Author:  Lenas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
It seems to me that people's biggest complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that they're mooching our **** without putting anything into the system. If they're paying taxes that changes, so yes I think it should make a difference.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Not really, but then I don't want to just jump from "report crime" to "deportation" in the first place. I do think the judge should evaluate the totality of the circumstances before deporting someone, and paying taxes is something to consider. However, I also don't want to encourage the creation and use of fake SSNs.

I would say that if an illegal immigrant with an otherwise clean record is found reporting a crime, they should be released on their own recognizance pending a court date. If they come to that immigration court date, they should then have a more lenient process by which they can remedy their illegal status. For example, if they are deported it should be treated as a voluntary return, and thus not count as a deportation if they then go to the consulate to apply for a visa.

For those who don't know, voluntary return is a process that presently applies only to Mexicans (and I think Canadians too, but I don't work on that border and obviously illegal Canadians are far less prevalent.) Essentially, for Mexicans apprehended in the process of entering the United States, they can be returned directly to Mexico with only a minimal documentation that they were here. Although it's recorded as a voluntary return, it isn't "deportation". The reason it's available is that a Mexican can just be driven to a bridge to leave and walk out whereas someone from any other country can't. For a long time, Mexicans got these almost by default unless they were a criminal or had been apprehended 5 or more times. This, of course, encouraged them to turn right around and try again right away. In the last year, they have been almost entirely eliminated because of the "revolving door" effect; they are really only granted to people with medical problems and other humanitarian situations, and juveniles. Adult males can still get them, but they are often sent to a completely different part of the border in order to give them more of a consequence than just "see you next time!"

For people that have been here for some time (I'd go with "in excess of one year") and otherwise have clean records that report a crime, if no good cause for them to remain is found, then they ought to be voluntary returned rather than deported; this would help avoid the problem of discouraging reporting of crimes.

The basic principle of current immigration law though, and a very important one, is that a person here illegally is treated as an applicant for admission, and being present int he country illegally makes them inadmissible and thus deportable. The reason for this is very simple; we do not want to give illegal immigrants an advantage that people who have followed the law don't have. Setting up a system where by reporting a crime they can get immigration relief just encourages people to come here and then invent a crime to report. Yes, you can investigate the crimes and then deport them anyhow, but that would mean a lot of sifting through and investigating fake reports.
Author:  Müs [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Lenas wrote:
It seems to me that people's biggest complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that they're mooching our **** without putting anything into the system. If they're paying taxes that changes, so yes I think it should make a difference.


Exactly. I get mad when people that don't bring beer to a party end up drinking like 6 and puking on my rug...

How do you think I feel about illegals getting free health care? Esp when I have a friend that has legit medical issues and has to pay for her ER visits because she has no insurance.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Lenas wrote:
It seems to me that people's biggest complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that they're mooching our **** without putting anything into the system. If they're paying taxes that changes, so yes I think it should make a difference.


That is true, but the biggest thing they are mooching is jobs. When illegals penetrate a labor market, the wages plummet in that type of work. It used to be a USC family could live as migrant workers; they wouldn't be well-off but it was doable. A lot of guys I work with grew up that way. Agricultural work, however, has been so taken over by cheap illegal labor that this is now almost impossible. People frequently claim that illegals do work Americans don't want to do. That's true - because the illegals themselves have created that situation. No one wants to do a job that involves very hard physical labor on an inconsistent basis for $3 an hour, or even minimum wage. Without a massive supply of illegal labor, agriculture/agribusiness would have to pay the wages needed to harvest their crops, or not harvest them.

The same is starting to happen in construction/contracting now.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Müs wrote:
Lenas wrote:
It seems to me that people's biggest complaints about illegal aliens is the fact that they're mooching our **** without putting anything into the system. If they're paying taxes that changes, so yes I think it should make a difference.


Exactly. I get mad when people that don't bring beer to a party end up drinking like 6 and puking on my rug...

How do you think I feel about illegals getting free health care? Esp when I have a friend that has legit medical issues and has to pay for her ER visits because she has no insurance.


It is an almost daily event that we send illegals to the hospital for trivial complaints just to get them medically cleared. Frequently, the hospital staff can find nothing actually wrong with them.
Author:  Hopwin [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:55 pm ]
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Criminals reporting crimes should = amnesty is the argument here? Or is this more like a plea deal? Don't deport me and I will tell you which houses sell crack or brew meth?
Author:  Hopwin [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can they report each other? My neighbor is an illegal immigrant; I reported him citizenship please!
Author:  DFK! [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Lenas wrote:
That's true. Would it change anyone's opinion that voted "yes" if the illegal did indeed pay taxes?


Yes.

On the other hand, immigration should be an open, and easy path. It's a large part of what this country was built on.
Author:  Lenas [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
I agree. The entire process is frustratingly prohibitive, time-consuming and expensive.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
When we needed to grow our population, immigration was more important. Just because we built the country on immigration does not mean it should always be open and easy. Then and now, we're acting as a "people sink" for countries that have problems. Back then, we needed manpower. Now, that's less true (although far from entirely false). Excessively easy immigration, as well as lax immigration enforcement, are "enabling behavior" for several countries to avoid dealing with internal issues.

That said, it could certainly stand to be more open and easy than it is.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should illegal immigrants be deported when reporting a c
Lenas wrote:
I agree. The entire process is frustratingly prohibitive, time-consuming and expensive.


This is quite true. Especially the time-consuming part. Immigration reform should focus on making it vastly less bureaucratic.

Lenas, if you don't mind the question, how did you and your wife address her situation? Did you apply for a K visa?
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