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Global warming getting cold https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=921 |
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Author: | Leshani [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Global warming getting cold |
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... onomyId=82 Lots of fun things happening I expect to hear lots more over the next couple days. It does appear that the fraud is being exposed. |
Author: | Monte [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:30 am ] |
Post subject: | |
The Article wrote: "More interesting is what is not contained in the emails," the site noted. "There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’ [Medieval Warm Period], no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords." Much ado about nothing, again? |
Author: | Talya [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Monte wrote: Much ado about nothing, again? Kinda missing the point. It sure throws the "consensus"...and even "majority opinion" out on its ***. |
Author: | Monte [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:06 am ] |
Post subject: | |
No, it doesn't. An email that laments a lack of explanation for a current issue does *not* throw consensus out on it's *** no matter how badly people want to believe it. Look, people wanted to believe warming was not occurring when the modeling was imperfect. Guess what? The modeling got better, and the problem turned out to be worse. edit - As I read more of this stuff, it become pretty clear that the politics of trying to nip at the heels of HIGCC are making these scientists very guarded about their research. It's pretty easy for someone with an agenda of attack against the science to pick and choose data out of context and try to play it out in the public as some sort of smoking gun against said science. That tactic has been used repeatedly over the years. People still believe we are in some sort of cooling period, they believe that it has to do with solar flare activity, and even continue to believe the modeling is bad (even though the models have sigificantly improved and have shown the problem to be even worse than we thought). That kind of political attack gets in the way of their research. One of the researchers calls it McCarthyite, and I don't blame him. |
Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
How can their be a conscenus on anything when lots of people are against it? I think that word gets thrown around too much, in this debate and many others. George Washington talked about being honest and meeting on "the battlefield of ideas." Open debate is a cornerstone of our Republic. Our country isn't a simple Democracy like ancient Greece, where 51% of the people get to dictate policy to the others. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Even if everyone agreed Monte that is no evidence that the facts are correct. |
Author: | Hannibal [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Monte wrote: The Article wrote: "More interesting is what is not contained in the emails," the site noted. "There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’ [Medieval Warm Period], no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords." Much ado about nothing, again? Rules for Radicals wrote: Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage. Let's not dismiss that these e-mails are very damaging to the |
Author: | Micheal [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
There is too much time and money involved in the concept of global warming ofr its proponents to give up without a fight. I expect to hear a lot more defense and diversion from the 'where's the data?' question. |
Author: | Hannibal [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Again, global warming is religion for the trendy. It's big business parading around in Birkenstocks and a ponytail, but the motive is still the same, market dominance and the (prior to 2008)almighty dollar. Amusing that the same arguments that are put vs religion can be used to the same effect against global warming. |
Author: | Dash [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
An example of the ado: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD9C441LG0 Quote: In one leaked e-mail, the research center's director, Phil Jones, writes to colleagues about graphs showing climate statistics over the last millennium. He alludes to a technique used by a fellow scientist to "hide the decline" in recent global temperatures. Some evidence appears to show a halt in a rise of global temperatures from about 1960, but is contradicted by other evidence which appears to show a rise in temperatures is continuing. Jones wrote that, in compiling new data, he had "just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline," according to a leaked e-mail, which the author confirmed was genuine. And, just for fun... It's rainin bears, hallelujah! [youtube]fxis7Y1ikIQ[/youtube] |
Author: | Dash [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
More ado: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... v=hcmodule Quote: In one e-mail, the center's director, Phil Jones, writes Pennsylvania State University's Michael E. Mann and questions whether the work of academics that question the link between human activities and global warming deserve to make it into the prestigious IPCC report, which represents the global consensus view on climate science.
"I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report," Jones writes. "Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" In another, Jones and Mann discuss how they can pressure an academic journal not to accept the work of climate skeptics with whom they disagree. "Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal," Mann writes. "I will be emailing the journal to tell them I'm having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor," Jones replies. Patrick Michaels, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute who comes under fire in the e-mails, said these same academics repeatedly criticized him for not having published more peer-reviewed papers. "There's an egregious problem here, their intimidation of journal editors," he said. "They're saying, 'If you print anything by this group, we won't send you any papers.' " |
Author: | Hannibal [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | |
It's like how ACORN only had a "few bad apples". First reaction will to be to attack the hackers (yes they did something wrong but ends justify means right?) Next will be to distance from these scientists and paint them as "loners". Third will be to have the fear machine start printing propaganda full force to keep the sheep running full tilt in the direction they want. |
Author: | Müs [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Dash wrote: And, just for fun... It's rainin bears, hallelujah! [youtube]fxis7Y1ikIQ[/youtube] O.o <-- I made this face IRL @ that. |
Author: | Hannibal [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:36 am ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm going to start faux outrage at their killing of multiple polar bears to prove a point. Hopefully it will eat up enough of their funding to refute the claims that they won't put a #%$#@$#'ing stupid video like that out again. |
Author: | Khross [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Email 1255553034 Quote: The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. I found this nice little gem on Vox Day's blog. The quote comes from Kevin Trenberth. That particular email is dated 14 October 2009. Neat stuff.
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Author: | Screeling [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
This ties into that Hockey Stick Problem thread posted a while back. http://www.espressopundit.com/2009/11/a ... izona.html Spoiler: |
Author: | Telumehtar [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Dash: Neither of the quotes you present are the "gotchas" that right-wing blogs are making them out to be. The first quote is especially funny, because it refers to a "trick" which has had the reasoning behind it and methodology explained in published papers many times. Jones even calls it "Mike's NATURE trick" because it was published in Nature. It is only a gotcha if you don't read the primary literature. Ladas' post from a couple of weeks ago (before the e-mails were leaked) is about this very "trick". The second quote refers to a well-known and publicly discussed situation. The e-mail authors have been very public in their contempt for the papers and journal in question. While I agree that it is unethical to block papers simply because you agree with their conclusion, that does not accurately describe this situation. Neither quote adds anything unkown to the discussion. The most troubling things I've seen come out of this are an unwillingness to share primary data. I agree with critics that these researchers need to have all their data easily and publicly accessible. |
Author: | Khross [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Telumhetar: The paper blocking issue is a "gotcha" in the strictest sense. |
Author: | Aegnor [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
And the "hide the decline" thing is very interesting too. And more than that, it is the overall tone of the emails. The way it is supposed to work is you come up with your hypothesis, and run some tests and determine if the results jive with your hypothesis. If not, you modify your hypothesis. What they seem to be doing is running their tests, then taking the data and trying to manipulate it to match their hypothesis. Rather than letting the data lead them to the truth, they are saying "we know the truth, how do we get the data to fit". That attitude permiates the emails, and it is troublesome, even aside from the specifics. |
Author: | Hannibal [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
It's being discussed that this "hacker" is actually an internal whistleblower |
Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Aegnor wrote: And the "hide the decline" thing is very interesting too.
And more than that, it is the overall tone of the emails. The way it is supposed to work is you come up with your hypothesis, and run some tests and determine if the results jive with your hypothesis. If not, you modify your hypothesis. What they seem to be doing is running their tests, then taking the data and trying to manipulate it to match their hypothesis. Rather than letting the data lead them to the truth, they are saying "we know the truth, how do we get the data to fit". That attitude permiates the emails, and it is |
Author: | Dash [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Telumehtar wrote: Dash: Neither of the quotes you present are the "gotchas" that right-wing blogs are making them out to be. The first quote is especially funny, because it refers to a "trick" which has had the reasoning behind it and methodology explained in published papers many times. Jones even calls it "Mike's NATURE trick" because it was published in Nature. It is only a gotcha if you don't read the primary literature. Ladas' post from a couple of weeks ago (before the e-mails were leaked) is about this very "trick". I'm pretty sure I get the gist of a "trick" to "hide the decline", it's more than obvious to me that many are exaggerating the case. The funny part is they really dont need to, yet they do anyway and I enjoy watching it blow up on them. I understand why you'd want to brush this off as a lot of nothing, and I'm sure the left wing blogs are pushing that meme full bore, but it's not the case. |
Author: | Corolinth [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Thermal transfer doesn't use field mechanics. Perhaps these tree ring experts should actually learn the underlying science behind what they're trying to study, or else go for for Miss Cleo. |
Author: | Dash [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
More nothing: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24 ... 1180.shtml Quote: In addition to e-mail messages, the roughly 3,600 leaked documents posted on sites including Wikileaks.org and EastAngliaEmails.com include computer code and a description of how an unfortunate programmer named "Harry" -- possibly the CRU's Ian "Harry" Harris -- was tasked with resuscitating and updating a key temperature database that proved to be problematic. Some excerpts from what appear to be his notes, emphasis added:
Quote: I am seriously worried that our flagship gridded data product is produced by Delaunay triangulation - apparently linear as well. As far as I can see, this renders the station counts totally meaningless. It also means that we cannot say exactly how the gridded data is arrived at from a statistical perspective - since we're using an off-the-shelf product that isn't documented sufficiently to say that. Why this wasn't coded up in Fortran I don't know - time pressures perhaps? Was too much effort expended on homogenisation, that there wasn't enough time to write a gridding procedure? Of course, it's too late for me to fix it too. Meh. I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same station name and very similar coordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh! There truly is no end in sight... So, we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage! One thing that's unsettling is that many of the assigned WMo codes for Canadian stations do not return any hits with a web search. Usually the country's met office, or at least the Weather Underground, show up – but for these stations, nothing at all. Makes me wonder if these are long-discontinued, or were even invented somewhere other than Canada! Knowing how long it takes to debug this suite - the experiment endeth here. The option (like all the anomdtb options) is totally undocumented so we'll never know what we lost. 22. Right, time to stop pussyfooting around the niceties of Tim's labyrinthine software suites - let's have a go at producing CRU TS 3.0! since failing to do that will be the definitive failure of the entire project. Ulp! I am seriously close to giving up, again. The history of this is so complex that I can't get far enough into it before by head hurts and I have to stop. Each parameter has a tortuous history of manual and semi-automated interventions that I simply cannot just go back to early versions and run the update prog. I could be throwing away all kinds of corrections - to lat/lons, to WMOs (yes!), and more. So what the hell can I do about all these duplicate stations?... As the leaked messages, and especially the HARRY_READ_ME.txt file, found their way around technical circles, two things happened: first, programmers unaffiliated with East Anglia started taking a close look at the quality of the CRU's code, and second, they began to feel sympathetic for anyone who had to spend three years (including working weekends) trying to make sense of code that appeared to be undocumented and buggy, while representing the core of CRU's climate model. One programmer highlighted the error of relying on computer code that, if it generates an error message, continues as if nothing untoward ever occurred. Another debugged the code by pointing out why the output of a calculation that should always generate a positive number was incorrectly generating a negative one. A third concluded: “I feel for this guy. He’s obviously spent years trying to get data from undocumented and completely messy sources.” Programmer-written comments inserted into CRU’s Fortran code have drawn fire as well. The file briffa_sep98_d.pro says: “Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!” and “APPLY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION.” Another, quantify_tsdcal.pro, says: “Low pass filtering at century and longer time scales never gets rid of the trend – so eventually I start to scale down the 120-yr low pass time series to mimic the effect of removing/adding longer time scales!” |
Author: | Dash [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Global warming getting cold |
Meanwhile... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greensp ... hagen.html Quote: President Obama will attend the international climate negotiations in Copenhagen next month, according to a senior administration official, a sign of the president’s increasing confidence that the talks will yield a meaningful agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
The White House will also announce today that the United States will commit, in the talks, to reduce its emissions of the heat-trapping gases scientists blame for global warming “in the range of” 17 percent below 2005 levels by 2020, the official said. That’s the target set out in the climate bill the House passed in June. |
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