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Rip margret thatcher https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9813 |
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Author: | TheRiov [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Rip margret thatcher |
Farewell to the Iron Lady of Britain http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... -dead.html |
Author: | Hopwin [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 am ] |
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Hellfire? |
Author: | Uncle Fester [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
*salute to the Iron Lady* It probably would have ended up here as we began discussing her politics, so a pre-emptive hellfiring. *salute for keeping GB's currency out of the Euro, nothing like vindication* |
Author: | Talya [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:20 am ] |
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Maggie was a product of the cold war, and an important part of ending it. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:27 am ] |
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RIP |
Author: | Micheal [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Hopwin wrote: Hellfire? Yes, Hellfire. May she rot in Hell for what she did supposedly for the UK but more often because she couldn't take not getting her way. She made a right mess of things whenever people wouldn't show their bellies to the Empire. Standing up for yourself and your rights was not allowed on her watch. Of course I may be a little biased |
Author: | Talya [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Micheal wrote: Hopwin wrote: Hellfire? Yes, Hellfire. May she rot in Hell for what she did supposedly for the UK but more often because she couldn't take not getting her way. She made a right mess of things whenever people wouldn't show their bellies to the Empire. Standing up for yourself and your rights was not allowed on her watch. Of course I may be a little biased Interesting. What are you referring to, here? I was fairly young, so I don't remember domestic details of what she did in the UK, but i give her full props for what she did to Argentina. I don't know how Argentinian junta government thought they could invade sovereign UK territory without repercussions, but I approve of how they showed them. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:53 pm ] |
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Heh, Obama couldn't have asked for a better present than Thatcher dying right now, during the budget crisis. Everyone going to remember how she pushed through huge reductions in government spending and increases in the interest rate in 1979-1980, and then how the UK economy subsequently nosedived. (18% inflation in 1981, 13% unemployment in 1982) As far as random events go, there's not many that could have better vindicated Obama's platform of high spending and low interest rates. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:37 pm ] |
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Because really, it was only the UK having a recession at that time. |
Author: | DFK! [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Xequecal wrote: Heh, Obama couldn't have asked for a better present than Thatcher dying right now, during the budget crisis. Everyone going to remember how she pushed through huge reductions in government spending and increases in the interest rate in 1979-1980, and then how the UK economy subsequently nosedived. (18% inflation in 1981, 13% unemployment in 1982) As far as random events go, there's not many that could have better vindicated Obama's platform of high spending and low interest rates. I agree, considering how shortsighted journalists and the public are, that's her only impact. Not the longer term ramifications. But whatever. |
Author: | Talya [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:31 am ] |
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It's generally accepted that some economic pain will be required to fix the economy. Struggling to maintain the economy now is sacrificing a healthy economic future in order to keep more people happy in the short term. Sometimes it's more efficient to tear the house down and rebuild it better than it is to try to restore the existing house-- but you do have to deal with the pain in the short term of being kicked out of the house while you rebuild. You have to appreciate sentiments like this: Margaret Thatcher wrote: I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations. Sadly, as successful as she was during her tenure as PM, sensible thinking like that has gradually given way to touchy feely nanny-state nonsense. In particular, her hardline stance on labor union protectionism is something I'd love to see in politics again. But unions have gained too much power now...the support required to defy them is so monumental that it's unlikely we'll ever see it again. |
Author: | Talya [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:29 am ] |
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Nice Forbes article on her accomplishments, for those of you who... like me... were too young (or perhaps not even born) when she was PM. http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes ... -like-her/ |
Author: | Khross [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
Margaret Thatcher's economic policies are pretty much the only reason the United Kingdom still exists. I'm not sure where you're getting your history, but the UK was facing the same problems that caused New Zealand's fiscal woes in the early 80s; fiscal woes I might add that make today's situation in Greece look like a free Sunday at Disney World. Cradle-to-grave socialism was bankrupting the big UK commonwealths in rapid fashion; and the economic disaster you mention started because of bad tax policies, lack of capital mobility, shrinking international investments, and a lack of other people's money to spend. I'm sorry Xequecal, but history knows the progressive myth about the late 70s and early 80s to be wrong. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
Khross wrote: I'm sorry Xequecal, but history knows the progressive myth about the late 70s and early 80s to be wrong. What progressive myth are you referring to? Isn't it generally understood on both left and right that the US and the UK in that period opted for higher unemployment and interest rates in order to choke off inflation? Is that basic trade-off a point of historical controversy? |
Author: | Khross [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
RangerDave: Heh, you very obviously don't remember me raking Monte over the coals on this issue. New Zealand made the news in 2003/2004 for reverting to mid-century European socialism and going back to a functionally government controlled economy. Monte used a whole bunch of numbers from the first 18 months of this transition to show how socialism is better than capitalism. His entire argument hinged on the stagflation and deep U that preceded the Reagan double-dip. The reality is ... The Pacific Rim was arguably in a 10-15 year depression (definitely a brutal recession) long before the Oil Crisis and Stagflation hit the United States and England proper. Oceanic Commonwealths -- Australia and New Zealand -- were crumbling under the pressure of their entitlement support systems; they couldn't bring in enough money to pay out their expenditures. Think the looming Social Security crisis writ-large in multiple nations. These countries couldn't pay their bills. So, they went to the right and toward a free-market and opened up trade, capital mobility, etc. They let people spend money and make money, but they had to sacrifice some of the socialist ideals to get there. 30 years later, New Zealand is suddenly having economic troubles, and the OECD and other organizations (namely the New Zealand government and the UN) are suggesting New Zealand and the other Commonwealths should have stayed cradle-to-the-grave, because their human rights positions were diminished by their growing economies and free-markets; and well, because capitalism didn't prevent this recession. We don't need to get into the Asian problems in the Pacific Rim and the complete lack of export markets for New Zealand or Australia at the time. The rhetoric was simply, "Capitalism failed." And we've been hearing that same story every recession, every down-turn, every hiccup for almost 10 years now: the boom-bust cycle is a failure of capitalism, and socialism is the solution. As for Thatcher specifically, she wasn't dealing with American economic issues; she was dealing with Imperial economic issues. Thatcher opted for letting the market sort itself out. Instead of creating net-negative incentives for higher employment with lower meaningful productivity, Thatcher actually strong-armed what we would consider an economically passive policy through the UK. Governments paid their bills, cut costs, cut expenditures, cut waste. And governments let the banking market set interest rates and borrowing rates, etc. Thatcher was very instrumental in that happening in the U.S., too. There's been some negative fallout in some places (like here, where we stripped all the usury laws off the books needlessly during that period), but overall, Thatcher and Reagan had it right: you have to let the market correct itself. You can't force a change. |
Author: | Corolinth [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:37 am ] |
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If we let the market correct itself, then that means we're not listening to the political experts who graduated from Ivy League schools with degrees in knowing what's best for everyone else. Are you just going to ignore someone from Harvard with a PhD in knowing what's best for everyone? They went to Harvard, for ****'s sake! |
Author: | Lenas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
Morrissey weighs in Morrissey wrote: Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the ivory trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone—and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs-up sign for the British press.
Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women’s movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a prime minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it. Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Rip margret thatcher |
Ok, sinking an enemy warship during a war is somehow "unjust" now, because of some "exclusion zone"? Yes, we can totally dismiss this idiot. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:05 pm ] |
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She was definitely good for music. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:08 pm ] |
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Morrissey makes good music but I'm not giving him one red cent because he has proven to be a general idiot in areas that matter. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: Morrissey makes good music but I'm not giving him one red cent because he has proven to be a general idiot in areas that matter. She influenced Morrissey, U2, Macgowan, Floyd, and many many more. |
Author: | FarSky [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Arathain Kelvar wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: Morrissey makes good music but I'm not giving him one red cent because he has proven to be a general idiot in areas that matter. She influenced Morrissey, U2, Macgowan, Floyd, and many many more. Well..."influenced" in the same sense that Hitler "influenced" the making of Schindler's List. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Arathain Kelvar wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: Morrissey makes good music but I'm not giving him one red cent because he has proven to be a general idiot in areas that matter. She influenced Morrissey, U2, Macgowan, Floyd, and many many more. Don't really care why they started making music. Only care that my money would be going to support idiots. |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Micheal wrote: May she rot in Hell for what she did supposedly for the UK but more often because she couldn't take not getting her way. FarSky wrote: Arathain Kelvar wrote: She influenced Morrissey, U2, Macgowan, Floyd, and many many more. Well..."influenced" in the same sense that Hitler "influenced" the making of Schindler's List. Yet people still wonder why politicians are so reticent to make the hard choices for the good of the country. |
Author: | FarSky [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:44 pm ] |
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I'm not trying to Godwin or anything; I have literally no interest, vested or otherwise, in Margaret Thatcher or anything she did. Just saying that her "influence" wasn't influence on art in the sense that the word is normally used; instead, the art was more a response to her acts/choices/decisions/whatevers, not that it was inspired by them. It's a distinction I'm making in my own head that's probably of no relevance to anyone else. |
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