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4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident
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Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Quote:
(CNN) -- It happened in just seconds, by all accounts.

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off Saturday, killing Josephine Fanning, the 48-year-old wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning.

The tragedy has shaken the town of Lebanon, Tennessee, and has provided another example of the sometimes deadly intersection of children and guns. While lawmakers in Washington wrestle this week with the divisive politics of firearms, the community just east of Nashville is beside itself with grief.

It happened during what had been a lazy, happy day at a home cookout.

Deputy Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to look at some of the lawman's guns, said Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm.

Later, Josephine Fanning and the boy -- who was the deputy's 4-year-old nephew -- walked into the room.

At some point, the boy picked up a loaded pistol from a bed, Helm said. It was the deputy's personal weapon, not his service pistol, she said.

With a single shot, Fanning's wife was dead.

The deputy and Josephine had been married only about a year.

In an unusual move, Deputy Fanning told his story in an e-mail he sent to CNN affiliate WKRN.

He wrote that he had set down his off-duty weapon "only seconds before the tragedy."

"I would like the viewers to know that officers of Wilson County do not make a habit of leaving loaded guns simply lying around," he wrote.

"The door to the room the accident happened in stays locked unless we were sleeping or we were in it," Fanning wrote. "This was the only loaded gun in the house other than my duty weapon, which was locked away."

Wilson County Sheriff Robert Bryan said Fanning had been showing "another person that was there at the house some of his weapons he had locked in a secure gun safe," reported CNN affiliate WTVF.

No one saw the boy enter the room, WTVF quoted Bryan as saying.

"Split second," Bryan said. "We're talking about seconds for that kid to walk in that room unbeknownst to them, grab that gun and it goes off."

"He took all the precautions, he's a trained law enforcement officer, trains with weapons all the time."

Deputy Fanning also works as a school resource officer at Lebanon's Sam Houston Elementary, reported CNN affiliate WSMV.

The state bureau said it has taken all witness statements and its initial investigation is complete, but the bureau's case will remain open until the final autopsy and evidence is analyzed in the crime lab, Helm said.

No charges have been filed, said the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, which looks into incidents involving law enforcement officers.

"Nobody is immune to this," Bryan told WSMV. "It doesn't matter if you are a law enforcement officer. These things can happen in seconds."


Terrible. That poor little boy.

Author:  FarSky [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Quote:
"He took all the precautions"

Well...no, he didn't.

Tragic on all accounts. :(

Author:  Numbuk [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Yeah, what Farsky said. The idiot left the gun on the bed.

My brother when he was a toddler loved the taste of medicine. My parents didn't lock away that stuff, they just kept it out of reach. When they weren't watching, he fashioned a means of climbing up to it and drank an entire bottle.

He got his stomach pumped and fortunately turned out ok.

My point is, dangerous **** is all over people's houses and if they don't lock it away from kids, they will hurt or kill themselves.

Author:  Stathol [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Quote:
While lawmakers in Washington wrestle this week with the divisive politics of firearms, the community just east of Nashville is beside itself with grief.

Does this sort of reporting piss other people off as much as it pisses me off? Certainly this was tragic, and I'm sure some citizens of Lebanon are deeply affected by this. But the community itself -- all some-odd 26 thousand of them -- are "beside themselves with grief"?

There's no good journalistic reason to engage in that kind of hyperbole. Its only purpose is to stir the pot -- which wouldn't be half so obnoxious if the preceding phrase weren't subtly bemoaning the "divisive politics of firearms". Well...no ****. Self awareness much, buddy?

Author:  FarSky [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Stathol wrote:
Quote:
While lawmakers in Washington wrestle this week with the divisive politics of firearms, the community just east of Nashville is beside itself with grief.

Does this sort of reporting piss other people off as much as it pisses me off? Certainly this was tragic, and I'm sure some citizens of Lebanon are deeply affected by this. But the community itself -- all some-odd 26 thousand of them -- are "beside themselves with grief"?

There's no good journalistic reason to engage in that kind of hyperbole. Its only purpose is to stir the pot -- which wouldn't be half so obnoxious if the preceding phrase weren't subtly bemoaning the "divisive politics of firearms". Well...no ****. Self awareness much, buddy?

I can't find a good Pez image, so, um...+1 pez.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

I don't know what to say. He's suffering enough for his mistake, I'm sure. Unfortunately it's being used for the wrong kind of awareness.

Author:  DFK! [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Stathol wrote:
Quote:
While lawmakers in Washington wrestle this week with the divisive politics of firearms, the community just east of Nashville is beside itself with grief.

Does this sort of reporting piss other people off as much as it pisses me off? Certainly this was tragic, and I'm sure some citizens of Lebanon are deeply affected by this. But the community itself -- all some-odd 26 thousand of them -- are "beside themselves with grief"?


I would imagine your pissed off level is actually smaller than mine. I hate shitty reporting. From all sides.

To be fair though, this could be the editor, not the writer.

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

So a while back we had a discussion about whether people should be prosecuted for accidents.

Thoughts on this case? As with car accidents, I see no value in prosecution.

Author:  Aizle [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Not enough detail in the article to know if there was negligence for sure or not.

That said, I find it hard to understand why you would have a loaded firearm lying around when you're actively showing it to friends/family. Step 1 when showing a weapon to someone is to clear it and verify it's unloaded. If it's something you store loaded, then it's getting loaded and immediately cased or put back into whatever storage location, and should be out of the reach of a 4 year old.

Like I said, there isn't enough detail in the article, but I can't help but think this guy was being very sloppy about safety.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

There was certainly negligence. I'm not sure if its criminal( as Im not familiar with the proper statute)I got the impression that he set the weapon down, and went off to do something else before/instead of properly securing it with the full intention of getting to it "in a second"

Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

The biggest tragedy is humanity's flawed notion that it can prevent all accidents.

Author:  Khross [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

I'm 100% convinced that the biggest traggedy is any given slice's of humanity flawed notion it can tell the rest of humanity how to live.

Author:  Aizle [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Khross wrote:
I'm 100% convinced that the biggest traggedy is any given slice's of humanity flawed notion it can tell the rest of humanity how to live.


Yeah, because civilization is such a terrible thing. :roll:

Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

I'm not saying the government needs to/can Do Something in this case. It does sound like he may have broken the best practices. It's kind of like going 5 mph over the speed limit. There's nothing you can do about it from a legal stance and its relatively harmless: until you need those couple a hundred extra feet of stopping distance.

Author:  Taskiss [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Aizle wrote:
Khross wrote:
I'm 100% convinced that the biggest traggedy is any given slice's of humanity flawed notion it can tell the rest of humanity how to live.


Yeah, because civilization is such a terrible thing. :roll:

Do you really think civilization requires one group of people telling another how to live?

Author:  Khross [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

That's a curious notion of civilization, Aizle. Presumably, and I'm going out on a limb here, civilization exists because there are many human beings. In some fantastically simple sense, civilization exists because we are numerous and for no other reason. We could sit here and argue the qualities of civilization and what constitutes civilization, but ultimately what you want is a token affirmation of your definition of civilized. Incidentally, that's a peculiarly gentrified position for you to be in, seeing as you've subsisted in arguing against the very things that make your rather privileged existence possible. The presumption that you know the difference between a civilized people and something other is rather fantastic, and endemic of your politics.

Civilization exists because of biological necessity and reproductive restrictions in our genetic code. Human beings inbreed particularly poorly for mammals. This requires diversity in our mate selection, predisposes us to polygamy, and pretty much requires sexual dimorphism. That last thing is problematic: men and women are structural and functionally different, both physiologically and neurologically. Civilization exists for survival purposes and functions at a level slightly more basic than breathing.

The state of being civilized, however, is an entirely different matter and totally subjective.

Author:  Aizle [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Taskiss wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Khross wrote:
I'm 100% convinced that the biggest traggedy is any given slice's of humanity flawed notion it can tell the rest of humanity how to live.


Yeah, because civilization is such a terrible thing. :roll:

Do you really think civilization requires one group of people telling another how to live?


Show me a civilization that doesn't enforce some set of rules around it's members.

Author:  Taskiss [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Aizle wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think civilization requires one group of people telling another how to live?
Show me a civilization that doesn't enforce some set of rules around it's members.

Yes, I agree there needs to be a certain degree of cooperation on the part of individuals to qualify as a civilization and rules discouraging noncooperative behavior.

So let me rephrase and hopefully clarify. Do you think that "civilization" requires one (or more) groups with ... alternative behavior, I guess you'd call it ... that must be discouraged by another group?

Author:  Hannibal [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:11 am ]
Post subject: 

This story will disappear in a few days untouched by either side of the debate. It is a political wash. My personal feelings to his actions was he was negligent. He left a loaded weapon unsecured out of his control with kids around. Should he face any more penalties than what he's already going to have to live with? My first reaction is no

Author:  Aizle [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 year old shoots his aunt in an accident

Taskiss wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think civilization requires one group of people telling another how to live?
Show me a civilization that doesn't enforce some set of rules around it's members.

Yes, I agree there needs to be a certain degree of cooperation on the part of individuals to qualify as a civilization and rules discouraging noncooperative behavior.

So let me rephrase and hopefully clarify. Do you think that "civilization" requires one (or more) groups with ... alternative behavior, I guess you'd call it ... that must be discouraged by another group?


You already answered the question yourself in your first sentence, but the answer is a very obvious yes. While obviously the better civilizations are built around cooperation and collective agreement on rules, there will always be some smaller faction that doesn't agree with the rules that are set forth by the majority or authority. Over time the rules often change or morph based on the times, but there are some that are fairly immutable. The obvious example is killing people. I'm not aware of any civilization where the average citizen is free to kill anyone they like. And anyone who does is actively sought out to be punished or removed from the general population. I believe that actions like that are not only a good thing but inevitable anytime you put even 2 people in close proximity for any length of time. Another example would be my wife and I. Over the 20+ years we've been together there have been many behaviors that we've needed to discourage in each other in order to live harmoniously. Now the vast majority of them have been things that we've willingly compromised on, but some have been harder to do than others. In the end they are all examples of one group telling another group how they should live. This would be even more true were we to have kids.

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