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Fun School activities. https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9844 |
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Author: | Uncle Fester [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Fun School activities. |
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/13/re ... al-rights/ Spoiler: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/12/ne ... ssignment/ Spoiler: |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fun School activities. |
I find the first one far more disturbing than the second, which is tasteless, crass, and poorly-thought-out, but does have value as a lesson in how things might work inside a Nazi regime. Also, high school students are a more appropriate audience for that sort of thing than 4th graders. That is a striking change from when I was in middle school/high school. Middle school especially was one constant bombardment about the Holocaust. If we weren't studying in social studies for the umplteenth time, and usually just by reading poems and stories about how awful it was (duh) we were going to some special presentation with a bunch of local Jewish college students (never the same ones) who just wanted to stomp around on a stage doing impressionistic blathering on about the evils of totalitarianism and genocide, as if that was a difficult concept to grasp. "Hey kids, slaughtering people by the millions just to have a regime scapegoat is bad, mmmmkay?" Yeah, no kidding. You think? To hear them tell it, you wouldn't even know there was a war going on at the time. |
Author: | Talya [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fun School activities. |
Diamondeye wrote: I find the first one far more disturbing than the second, which is tasteless, crass, and poorly-thought-out, but does have value as a lesson in how things might work inside a Nazi regime. Also, high school students are a more appropriate audience for that sort of thing than 4th graders. Agreed. The second is potentially a useful thought excersize. It is not enough to just say something was "evil" and unacceptable. Nazi Germany had real motivations for what it did. Understanding them and then deconstructing them is useful in helping people understand why we don't accept it. Playing the devil's advocate is a useful process. The first... yeah, that's just a bad idea. Individual rights trump everything else, and it doesn't seem designed to help explain that, but rather a brainwashing technique to get kids to disbelieve it. |
Author: | TheRiov [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I guess I take the opposite tack. Just thinking and explaining which rights you most highly value and which ones you would be willing to sacrifice for which reason is a valid thought experiment. No one is asking them to actually give them up. My reading is more that the teacher was appalled by the students willingness to surrender rights and had them write a note so parents could address that. Furthermore, historically people have been willing to sacrifice some rights, and some limitations on rights for security. Much of MY social science education was focused on understanding alternate perspectives, including other societies. It in no way implies that I agree with them, but I can at least understand some of the mindset that has led to dictatorial regimes for example YMMV |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
TheRiov wrote: I guess I take the opposite tack. Just thinking and explaining which rights you most highly value and which ones you would be willing to sacrifice for which reason is a valid thought experiment. No one is asking them to actually give them up. My reading is more that the teacher was appalled by the students willingness to surrender rights and had them write a note so parents could address that. Furthermore, historically people have been willing to sacrifice some rights, and some limitations on rights for security. Much of MY social science education was focused on understanding alternate perspectives, including other societies. It in no way implies that I agree with them, but I can at least understand some of the mindset that has led to dictatorial regimes for example YMMV This might be true for older children or college students, but for kids who are still in elementary school the concept of a thought experiment is something they really don't yet grasp for the most part (obviously there might be exceptions). Even adolescents have a hard time keeping sight of the difference between "is" and "should be"; that's part of what makes them adolescents rather than adults, but with adolescents, introducing them to such things helps them develop into adults. Smaller children don't yet have adolescent thought tools. The making them sign their name to it part is especially disturbing though, because even fourth garders know that when an adult signs, it's Something Serious. There was absolutely no reason to do that, no matter what other merits the assignment may or may not have had. |
Author: | Khross [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fun School activities. |
This is the United States, consequently any Civics class starts with mastery of the Preamble to the Constitution and the Constitution itself, which clearly state otherwise, TheRiov. You don't give up Rights in this Country. In fact, we have the 9th and 10th Amendment, which are effectively the first real American legal disclaimers: "We didn't get all the rights and privileges protected by this document on paper; those we forgot are the province of the People of the States, and we can't do **** about that." |
Author: | TheRiov [ Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fun School activities. |
Khross wrote: This is the United States, consequently any Civics class starts with mastery of the Preamble to the Constitution and the Constitution itself, which clearly state otherwise, TheRiov. You don't give up Rights in this Country. In fact, we have the 9th and 10th Amendment, which are effectively the first real American legal disclaimers: "We didn't get all the rights and privileges protected by this document on paper; those we forgot are the province of the People of the States, and we can't do **** about that." Only if you encourage the study of what the paper says and not what has actually happened. I'm not debating the merits of that, simply stating that historically it has happened and if one is to understand history one must understand the mindset of those who lived during those times. |
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