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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:39 am 
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Yeah I didnt know wtf a minarete was either. Here is an example:

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Minarets (, from Arabic manāra (lighthouse) منارة, usually مئذنة) are distinctive architectural features of Islamic mosques. Minarets are generally tall spires with onion-shaped or conical crowns, usually either free standing or taller than any associated support structure.


As a side note, purely objectively speaking I think minaretes are cool looking. Nerd note: In the Civ games you could pick what type of architecture to make your palace out of and I always went with the minaretes for that portion of it.

Here is the story:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/11 ... index.html

Quote:
(CNN) -- Swiss voters on Sunday adopted a referendum banning the construction of minarets, seen by some on the far right as a sign of encroaching Islamism.

"The Federal Council respects this decision," said a statement from Switzerland's government. "Consequently the construction of new minarets in Switzerland is no longer permitted. The four existing minarets will remain.

"It will also be possible to continue to construct mosques," the government statement said. "Muslims in Switzerland are able to practice their religion alone or in community with others, and live according to their beliefs just as before."


And an opinion piece:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... inion_main

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Nearly 58% of Swiss voters Sunday cast their ballots in favor of banning the construction of new minarets in the Alpine republic, a surprise result that led at least one Swiss member of parliament to declare that "the foundations of Switzerland's direct democracy have failed."

That is clearly wrong. Swiss direct democracy shows its mettle when Swiss voters use it to stand up to their political elites, as happened here. Having said that, Sunday's vote, for all the hand-wringing leading up to it, was a decidedly mild-mannered sort of protest. The construction of new minarets is banned, but the building of mosques is unaffected, and the vote does not affect the four existing minarets in the country. Nobody's freedom of worship is threatened, but a symbolic message has been sent.

But what message, exactly? The vote betrays an undercurrent of fear among the Swiss—a fear that is not without cause. There is no denying the connection between radical imams and terrorist acts. Nor should anyone look away from the fact that too many European Muslims flatly reject the norms of their host countries, sometimes in ways that are criminal: honor killings, child brides and the like.

Yet banning minarets does nothing to address that fear. It merely makes it less likely that the average Swiss will be confronted by a visible symbol of Islam upon his skyline. Thus, even as a symbolic gesture, it seems to encourage a head-in-the-sand approach toward the 5% of Swiss who are Muslim. In much of Europe, this is the norm anyway, the result of political correctness and cowardice.

Rather than being a blow against that attitude, Sunday's vote seems only to reinforce it. Banning minarets won't do anything to assimilate Switzerland's or Europe's Muslims, or to ensure that economic opportunity is available to everyone of whatever creed, or to deal with Western Europe's demographic problem of too few newborns.

The ban, in other words, does too much and too little at once. Too much because it becomes a very visible and easily exploited symbol of supposed European intolerance. But it accomplishes too little because it seeks merely to hide from view the problems that gave rise to the fear of the minaret in the first place.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:42 am 
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That doesn't make the swiss look very good.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:55 am 
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The article is pretty stupid, too. The author seems to be slyly suggesting that the only acceptable response to Islam is to run it out on a rail. There are millions upon millions of Muslims that are not anything close to a violent radical, but the quote seems to want to paint them all with a broad brush. In fact, I would argue that his paranoia about Islam is probably a similar (and similarly foolish, irrational, and misguided) outlook that drove this vote.

Imagine if the people of a town in America voted that churches couldn't erect crosses.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:14 am 
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Drop your bombs between the minarets down the Casbah way!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:24 am 
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Monte wrote:
The article is pretty stupid, too. The author seems to be slyly suggesting that the only acceptable response to Islam is to run it out on a rail. There are millions upon millions of Muslims that are not anything close to a violent radical, but the quote seems to want to paint them all with a broad brush. In fact, I would argue that his paranoia about Islam is probably a similar (and similarly foolish, irrational, and misguided) outlook that drove this vote.

Imagine if the people of a town in America voted that churches couldn't erect crosses.

That's not what I got out of the article at all. It's clearly bemoaning the lack of efforts to actually help assimilate and integrate Europe's growing Muslim culture rather than either bury their collective heads in the sand and pretend the massive immigration isn't happening (and remaining insular rather than observing the laws of their new homelands) or to lash out at them and villainize the immigrants.

I suppose, in this article as so many others, you read what you want to read, Montegue.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:29 am 
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Monte wrote:
The article is pretty stupid, too. The author seems to be slyly suggesting that the only acceptable response to Islam is to run it out on a rail. There are millions upon millions of Muslims that are not anything close to a violent radical, but the quote seems to want to paint them all with a broad brush. In fact, I would argue that his paranoia about Islam is probably a similar (and similarly foolish, irrational, and misguided) outlook that drove this vote.

Imagine if the people of a town in America voted that churches couldn't erect crosses.


No it doesn't. The article is stating exactly what it says: that banning minaretes is effectual, useless and only a measure of political correctness. That bolder paths, be it addressing and interfacing with Islamic culture in an attempt to understand it or eradicating it through genocide or perhaps social ostracization, won't get taken despite being more effective.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:40 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
That doesn't make the swiss look very good.


Eh, I've never perceived the Swiss as caring how they look.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:51 am 
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I think this is pretty standard behavior for any incidents where a foreign culture is mixed in with an existing people. I think the opinion piece is correct to say this is a manifestation of Swiss fear (you can also sub in pissed off and angry) over lack of assimilation.

In a vacuum yeah it's pretty dumb to ban minaretes. But I think it's just an outlet to vent the hostility formed over other issues. They need to get a handle on this.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:53 am 
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The Swiss have an idea that's full of holes?

Par for the course, I'd think.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:55 am 
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FarSky wrote:
The Swiss have an idea that's full of holes?

Par for the course, I'd think.
I see what you did there ... I'm fairly certain that's the worst bit of wordplay originating from you ... ever.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:57 am 
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Yep pretty cheesy.

... sorry.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Correct me if I am wrong but on a similar note aren't the French working on legislation to ban burqas? Europe seems to be returning to the same nationalistic/xenophobic garbage that led to WWI and WWII. Either that or they are attempting to create a permanent underclass (see also African-Americans).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:23 pm 
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France's hatred of muslims gives their antisemitism a good run for its money.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:28 pm 
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My general impression is that "France" hates anything non-French within French borders that might "undermine" French culture/identity/prestige.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Americans learned how to be racist from our European ancestors.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:29 pm 
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As I understood it, the riots in France in the last couple years were in predominately Muslim neighborhoods. Not saying that justifies it, but that probably factors into it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:46 pm 
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Maybe the Swiss should take a clue from the warm, inviting and open tolerant Muslim countries on how they treat other religions, their houses of worship, free exercise of religion, and conversion. Fair is Fair, why not emulate the religion of peace? :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Thats because the French have forced economic and social seperation on all immigrants.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:09 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Thats because the French have forced economic and social seperation on all immigrants.



How by creating an economic system so hostile to business owners/employers that few will hire and thus create economic ghettos? :) Granted there are some big cultural hurdles as well, but I take every chance I get to mock top down run economic systems.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Khross wrote:
FarSky wrote:
The Swiss have an idea that's full of holes?

Par for the course, I'd think.
I see what you did there ... I'm fairly certain that's the worst bit of wordplay originating from you ... ever.


Yeah, it was kinda cheesy. Gouda thunk it?

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