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 Post subject: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:47 am 
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This op-ed was recently published, and I like the message both of the author and of his subject. More like this, please.

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Fighting Extremism With Civility

Monday 30 November 2009

by: E.J. Dionne Jr., Op-Ed

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Former Republican Congressman Jim Leach. (Photo: studio08denver)

Washington - The most surprising and disappointing aspect of our politics is how little pushback there has been against the vile, extremist rhetoric that has characterized such a large part of the anti-Obama movement.

President Obama's administration has largely ignored those accusing him of "fascism" and "communism," presumably believing that restraint in defense of dignity is no vice.

Republican politicians, worried about future primary fights, have been reluctant to pick a fight with a radical right that seems to be the most energized section of their party. Their "moderation" has consisted of a non-benign neglect of the extremists, and of accusing the president merely of "socialism."

And so it is that the first genuinely ringing call for moderation has come from a man who is effectively without a party, and whose own demeanor and career define temperance.

Jim Leach spent 30 years as a Republican member of Congress who went his own way. If this meant standing almost alone against his caucus, he was content to do so.

But he was never bombastic about it, as befits an extravagantly understated guy. The characteristic Leach look is a comfortable sweater worn under a tweed jacket, in season and out. That's about as fashionable as the persona of old Mr. Chips, the warmhearted and mildly Victorian headmaster who was the hero of James Hilton's 1934 novel.

Leach lost his Iowa seat in the 2006 Democratic tide, but he emerged relieved rather than bitter. He turned to academia, not the lobbying trade favored by so many other defeated politicians, and in 2008 engaged in the ultimate act of a maverick (a real one) by becoming a Republican for Obama. The new president in turn appointed Leach chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities.

It was in this role that Leach offered his critique of extremism in a speech at the National Press Club titled "Bridging Cultures" a few days before Thanksgiving. It deserves far more attention than it has received.

"Little is more important for the world's leading democracy in this change-intensive century," Leach argued, "than establishing an ethos of thoughtfulness and decency of expression in the public square.

"If we don't try to understand and respect others, how can we expect them to respect us, our values and our way of life?"

But our own political practice belies anything remotely like "civility," a word that Leach has as much a right to use as anyone in public life.

"It is particularly difficult not to be concerned about American public manners and the discordant rhetoric of our politics," he declared. "Words reflect emotion as well as meaning. They clarify -- or cloud -- thought and energize action, sometimes bringing out the better angels in our nature, sometimes lesser instincts."

But what are we doing in this great democracy? "Public officials," Leach observed, "are being labeled 'fascist' or 'communist.' And more bizarrely, significant public figures have toyed with hints of history-blind radicalism -- the notion of 'secession.'" This last is a reference to Texas Gov. Rick Perry's effort to ride to re-election by invoking a concept that we thought had been discredited in 1865.

Leach has no problem with a vigorous debate, but he's right that much of what passes for argument right now is mere calumny.

"There is, after all, a difference between holding a particular tax or spending or health care view," he said, "and asserting that an American who supports another approach or is a member of a different political party is an advocate of an 'ism' of hate that encompasses gulags and concentration camps. One framework of thought defines rival ideas; the other, enemies."

As a result, "citizens of various philosophical persuasions are reflecting increased disrespect for fellow citizens and thus for modern day democratic governance."

Leach still has a lot of the old moderate Republican in him, and he is critical of a political system that, by creating so many safe one-party seats, has produced strong incentives for politicians "to remain firmly positioned far from the center." He adds: "Institutional polarization is the inevitable result." That's true, too.

Leach's speech is the kickoff for a 50-state "civility tour," and my hunch is that this very civil man may have to put up with a lot of incivility along the way. It's strange that a call to consider respecting each other more might become a controversial endeavor. This is precisely why Leach's witness to moderation requires an immoderate dose of courage.

(c) 2009, Washington Post Writers Group

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:52 am 
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Don't suppose there's much chance of a call for this on the liberal side. It'd also be nice to see the Left stop with the hate-filled name calling.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:58 am 
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It looks to me like the subject of the article in question is asking everyone, not just the right, to be more restrained and civil. However, the right is leaps and bounds worse than the left is, or ever was over the last 10 years. Open calls for secession, prayer movements praying for the president's death, southern preachers praying for his death, people with guns at rallies, Glenn Beck, did I mention Glenn Beck, oh, and Glenn Beck.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:04 am 
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Some people on the Left have been calling me (and people like me) names for years. When I see genuine efforts to stop that, I'll be concerned about name calling from the Right. Till then, you reap what you sow.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:11 am 
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Pretty much hypocrisy in a nutshell.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:12 am 
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Monte wrote:
It looks to me like the subject of the article in question is asking everyone, not just the right, to be more restrained and civil. However, the right is leaps and bounds worse than the left is, or ever was over the last 10 years. Open calls for secession, prayer movements praying for the president's death, southern preachers praying for his death, people with guns at rallies, Glenn Beck, did I mention Glenn Beck, oh, and Glenn Beck.
Well, I can honestly say you took the original post to heart, Montegue.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:14 am 
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Dionne: Now that Obama is President it's time to be nice to the President!

Especially those effing right wing tools!

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:16 am 
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The way I see it, some on the Left have been using the name-calling tactic for years, to try and intimidate folks into, at a minimum, silence. Nobody wants to be called a bigot, for example, so rather than speak up and express an opinion, folks have remained silent. But now some of the speech is coming back on the Left, and they're crying about it. If they didn't want rocks thrown at them, they shouldn't have thrown rocks.

Meh. Cry me a river.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:17 am 
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Also: Why cant all republicans be Republicans for Obama?

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:34 am 
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Unfortunately, I can't even be a Republican for Republicans, anymore.

It's kinda funny, I read an op-ed piece awhile back about the way Obama is doing things, and one paragraph chided people who, instead of voting for McCain, stayed home or voted 3rd party. My immediate thought was, "Well, the Republicans should have nominated someone I could support if they wanted my vote." *shrug*


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:50 am 
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Pretty interesting to me that the focus of this article, an article founded mainly on "be nicer to Obama" style sentiment, is a supporter of Obama.

Perhaps, instead, the editor should remember their ethics and, if they want to write a "be nicer to Obama" style piece, find someone in opposition to Obama advocating a change in dialogue.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:48 pm 
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So essentially he is saying let's cut the rhetoric and address the issues? Sad that this concept is considered radical nowadays.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
So essentially he is saying let's cut the rhetoric and address the issues? Sad that this concept is considered radical nowadays.



That isn't what he's saying at all. He's saying that paramount to discourse is "civility."

Again, if this editor wants to advocate civility towards healthcare overhaul or the President, they should pick as a spokesperson someone who actually disagrees with healthcare overhaul or the President.

Unfortunately, these people don't really mean "civility," it's clear from their use of language. They have a problem with the content of the oppositions message, not the tone. Hence, rather than refute labels of "socialist," "fascist," or "communist," they merely impugn the author of those statements.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:08 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
So essentially he is saying let's cut the rhetoric and address the issues? Sad that this concept is considered radical nowadays.



That isn't what he's saying at all. He's saying that paramount to discourse is "civility."

Again, if this editor wants to advocate civility towards healthcare overhaul or the President, they should pick as a spokesperson someone who actually disagrees with healthcare overhaul or the President.

Unfortunately, these people don't really mean "civility," it's clear from their use of language. They have a problem with the content of the oppositions message, not the tone. Hence, rather than refute labels of "socialist," "fascist," or "communist," they merely impugn the author of those statements.


rhetorical [rɪˈtɒrɪkəl]
adj
1. concerned with effect or style rather than content or meaning; bombastic
2. (Literature / Rhetoric) of or relating to rhetoric or oratory

I would say labelling people as socialist/communist and fascist would have to be rhetorical since the two are mutally exclusive.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Hopwin:

Considering that Fascism was an implementation of socialist populism in Italy and socialist nationalism in Germany, I fail to see how they were mutually exclusive.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Hopwin:

Considering that Fascism was an implementation of socialist populism in Italy and socialist nationalism in Germany, I fail to see how they were mutually exclusive.


Took the words right off my keyboard.


Furthermore, Hopwin, you'd have to demonstrate that (even if the terms were mutually exclusive) the same individuals are labeling Obama both of the exclusive terms. Otherwise it could simply be a variance of opinion.

For example, I am undecided as to whether he is a fascist or a communist. What I actually am thinking is that he (and most of his administration) are some sort of new political animal, evolved from a mish-mash of both.

His status as a socialist is flatly irrefutable, which is why they don't refute it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:30 pm 
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The left is all warm and cuddly now that they have their guy in office. Prior to that, it was burning effigies, websites devoted to slandering Bush, calling him a chimp, calling him the worst president of all time, calling everyone under the sun racist, etc.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
The left is all warm and cuddly now that they have their guy in office. Prior to that, it was burning effigies, websites devoted to slandering Bush, calling him a chimp, calling him the worst president of all time, calling everyone under the sun racist, etc.

Well, to be fair, there's still a lot of the last one floating around; it's the favored way of silencing criticism that they can't refute or counter.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
The left is all warm and cuddly now that they have their guy in office. Prior to that, it was burning effigies, websites devoted to slandering Bush, calling him a chimp, calling him the worst president of all time, calling everyone under the sun racist, etc.


But if you call Obama a chimp you are automatically a racist bastard.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:00 am 
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Khross wrote:
Hopwin:

Considering that Fascism was an implementation of socialist populism in Italy and socialist nationalism in Germany, I fail to see how they were mutually exclusive.


Then to be correct, you would have to say that he is an Italian or German fascist. Fascism by definition is when the state controls all (or the bulk of) industry; socialism/communism is when the people/community own the means of production. The Russian and Chinese models do not reflect true socialism/communism they are actually more along the lines of fascism.

DFK! wrote:
Furthermore, Hopwin, you'd have to demonstrate that (even if the terms were mutually exclusive) the same individuals are labeling Obama both of the exclusive terms.


I am not picking on either side of the aisle. We have a lot of name calling right now but it is no worse than the Left was when Bush was in office, in fact it might even be slightly more tame.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:54 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
I am not picking on either side of the aisle.


Except you do in the very next sentence.

Quote:
We have a lot of name calling right now but it is no worse than the Left was when Bush was in office, in fact it might even be slightly more tame.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:57 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Khross wrote:
Hopwin:

Considering that Fascism was an implementation of socialist populism in Italy and socialist nationalism in Germany, I fail to see how they were mutually exclusive.


Then to be correct, you would have to say that he is an Italian or German fascist. Fascism by definition is when the state controls all (or the bulk of) industry; socialism/communism is when the people/community own the means of production.


False, insofar as practical application is concerned.

Fascism involves private ownership of industry, with control and "oversight" from the government. It was created in Italy but evolved from there, so using "fascism" in general to describe Obama could be accurate without the "Italian fascist" label, because Obama and the administration are retaining private ownership of many companies but exerting operational influence through the czars.

Socialism should be considered distinct from communism, and there are very few national politicians in this country anymore whose advocated beliefs aren't at least 40% wholly socialist. While government might own the means of production under many forms of socialism, this is not true for all forms, and private property still exists.

Communism is technically ownership by "the people," but that's practically untenable. It is therefore ownership by "the state" and the abolition of private property typically accompanies this. Marx, the founder of Communism laid down 10 core tenets, of which, being generous, Obama espouses around 6. I could stretch it to 9 if I were playing to a different audience. Most national politicians support at least 2-3.

Hopwin wrote:
I am not picking on either side of the aisle. We have a lot of name calling right now but it is no worse than the Left was when Bush was in office, in fact it might even be slightly more tame.


I'm not worried about who you're picking on. I'm worried about the fact that you don't seem to realize that fascist or communist could be totally accurate labels, if imprecise, for our sitting president.

Again, this is why they don't refute those labels, they impugn the author.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
...Hopwin, you'd have to demonstrate that (even if the terms were mutually exclusive) the same individuals are labeling Obama both of the exclusive terms. Otherwise it could simply be a variance of opinion.

For example, I am undecided as to whether he is a fascist or a communist. What I actually am thinking is that he (and most of his administration) are some sort of new political animal, evolved from a mish-mash of both....


Bolded is mine.

I agree with this 100%. This is a new animal. Facism and Socialism decend from the same sphere of political thought, however, and much like all other aspects of humanity, they mutate over time. They adapt to their enviroment. They survive, and dominate through those mutations.

Much in the way Smith coined the term "mercantilism", and Marx coined the term "capitalism", the critiques of this new system will invent it's name.

Until such time that a great man comes along, and his words for this new abomination are coined, we need to look to the past for like descriptors.

Fascism and socialism are apt, for now.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Civility begins with the individual. I certainly work daily with God's grace to be more civil. I'd certainly encourage everyone else to do the same. I also belive one reaps what one sows so if a person works to be civil they can in time hope that civility will follow them.

That asside I don't surrender my disapproval with many of the President's and Congress's policies.

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 Post subject: Re: Call for Civility
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:23 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12 ... upporters/


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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid took his GOP-blasting rhetoric to a new level Monday, comparing Republicans who oppose health care reform to lawmakers who clung to the institution of slavery more than a century ago.

The Nevada Democrat, in a sweeping set of accusations on the Senate floor, also compared health care foes to those who opposed women's suffrage and the civil rights movement -- even though it was Sen. Strom Thurmond, then a Democrat, who unsuccessfully tried to filibuster the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and it was Republicans who led the charge against slavery.


So from the liberals I am a Holocaust Denier (based on my views of HIGW), a Traitor, a home land security threat, and now similar to a slaver, misogynist. One more step and I will be a full Nazi, or have they already used that Rhetoric?

Honestly I thought Dick Chenny's "**** you"was about the most disgraceful mouthful on the senate floor but it's nice to see it topped by Reid.

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