The Glade 4.0

Anarchists of the world unite!

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Is this pointed at me specifically, or a rant at the term moderate, which right or wrong is used pretty heavily in political discussions.

Sure you can ...

_________________

There are no moderates in this forum, because it is unmoderate(d).

_________________

I self moderate.

Quit laughing.. it's possible... just not likely.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.

The question was pointed at you.

_________________

Well, it really depends I guess. I try and be moderate in my of my views. I'm definately on the social liberal side of the fence, but also not rabid about it. So while I do support the ideas of government support networks, I also expect and want people to stand on their own two feet. So while I want there to be a helping hand if needed, it should not be a long term crutch. I'm also a supporter of gun rights, but within reason. I believe that the NRA is too far right in their views and while people should be allowed to own and use firearms, there needs to be some common sense applied as they are lethal weapons.

In some ways I'm moderately liberal, in others I'm moderately conservative. It seems cliche but I do actually try and live by the axiom of "moderation in all things, including moderation". And my thinking generally follows the same path. Most of the time it just boils down to pragmatism.

This is probably going to be seem like I'm picking on you, but your response is rather demonstrative of the problem with a label like "moderate".The problem here is that moderate still has no real meaning. It's an empty term used because it has some sort of social or political hegemony, but it fails to inform anything about you. I'm guessing the word you left out is "positioning", but I could be wrong. It's something contextually similar. Still, the point remains that "moderate" is non-informative here. What scale are we using? What boundaries or limits are set on that scale? Is there some sort of parameter you're leaving out? "Moderate" doesn't tell you or your reader anything. The term, in any political sense, vacates any attempt at communication.

We can use temperature as a good example here. What constitutes a "moderate" temperature in Minnesota? How does humidity factor into that designation? Concurrently, the same thing applies to politics. What constitutes a "moderate" political position? If we say 75 degrees with 24% humidity is moderate in Minnesota, does that hold true for North Florida? Likewise, if we say Obamacare is "moderate" does that mean "social security privitization" is extreme? "Moderate" implicates itself into some sort of parametric system, precisely because the term is comparative; yet, the term wholly fails when describing systems that have multiple planes of discussion and value sets which may or (mostly likely) may not intersect.

_________________

That's fair Khross, and I both see and even agree with your point. Unfortunately a full answer would be cumbersome at best, because no one's political views can be encapsulated into a single word. I submit that the terms liberal and conservative are similarly meaningless.

At some level, I believe that one of the key ingredients to being moderate is remaining open to opposing viewpoints and to changing ones opinion on a topic. It's actually one of the reasons why I keep coming here, is that I get good exposure to differing opinions so that I can at least hope to understand where folks are coming from even if I don't agree with them.

Aizle, what I think you are missing is that you believe yourself to be moderate, while others believe quite differently about you. Who is correct? It's all purely subjective, and when dealing with one's self, people are notoriously blind in their perception of actions/beliefs/social lens.

I know I am not "moderate", yet I could describe myself nearly the same way you do. As an example, these are not the words I would have chosen, but they apply:
I'm definately on the social liberal side of the fence, but also not rabid about it. So while I do support the ideas of support networks, I also expect and want people to stand on their own two feet. So while I want there to be a helping hand if needed, it should not be a long term crutch. I'm also a supporter of gun rights, but within reason. I believe that while people should be allowed to own and use firearms, there needs to be some common sense applied as they are lethal weapons.

Does that make me moderate?

edit:

Then I'd fall even more into the "moderate" category as you define it, as many of my viewpoints have changed over the last 20 years.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

All fair points Vindi.

Frankly, no one here can have a really good understanding of another poster unless they have met them outside of these forums. I suspect that everyone is much more moderate in real life than on here.

Probably true.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Yes, I'm sure. We really only discuss contentious issues here. If you want to find moderate viewpoints, look in threads with only 1 or 2 replies.

I don't know that folks are more "moderate" (heheh) in IRL, there's just a bunch of extraneous "stuff" and a lot more moments of agreement that buffer the moments of disagreement in the real world that we don't usually get here.

I say that with the caveat that I know there are people here who have an image they've fashioned that doesn't really reflect how they act IRL.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

There is of course only one way to prove out that theory. Have us all meet IRL over a brew.

Hey, contentious differences of opinion, alcohol and firearms. What could go wrong?!? /grin

Booze and firearms and opinions have mixed for a good portion of modern history and humanity is still here.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I suspect that the entirety of the glade could vanish and humanity would still go on.

I promise not to bring any firearms as long as I get plenty of the other two.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Aw. I like guns. Anytime you're in Mpls send me a PM. First one's on me. (that goes for anyone here really)

I like guns too, but I also do my damnedest to not mix alcohol and guns (you know common sense applied as they are lethal weapons heheh).

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Khross makes an excellent point.

I find that the term "moderate" is really not all that meaningful. Here, for example, we generally hear about how we have two parties, one on the left and one on the way left. On the other hand, if you go to another board thats more to the left, especially if it has large numbers of Europeans, they'll claim that we have one party on the center-right and one on the far-right, and that American politics is skewed ridiculously to the right in general because the "real" scale is the European one, bcause the U.S. is one country and Europe is.. a lot more, I don't care to count them at the moment. Hilariously, they'll call Obama a centrist.

This, of coruse, ignoring that the U.S. has far more people than any of them, and really around 60% of the population of all of them put together.

In any case, the entire idea of the center is incredibly subjective, because everyone wants the center to be closer to the center than it really is.

I generally consider a "moderate" to be a person who does not automatically side with one side or the other on any given issue, rather than a person who holds "middle of the road" views on each and every issue.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Word.

That's a good policy.

My dad taught me that when I was young.. then he started breaking it when his drinking got out of control. Thankfully one of his friends took them all before he hurt anyone. I suppose I'll get them all now.. not really how I wanted to.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."