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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:15 pm 
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http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... fe/c0ubm48

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It's hard to describe exactly what it is about the books after The Prisoner of Azkaban that I didn't like. I read them, wanted to read them, just to find out what happened. Perhaps my issues with the book are not major flaws, but I found them to detract from the books.

First of all, Harry Potter and his friends have got to be the most pathetic magic users ever trained. Even Hermoine, who is presented as the smartest student of the school, is, really, quite pathetic. It seems like everyone in the previous generation was much more skilled by the time they graduated, or even before they graduated, Hogwarts. James and company were skilled/powerful enough to make the Marauder's Map, a feat I doubt Hermoine (lets not even mention Harry here) could replicate if her life depended on it. Tom Riddle created a copy of his memories in a journal while still, what, a sixth year? Even Snape was a capable potion maker (to the point of improving the recipes) and seemed to either know an advanced curse, or created it as recorded by his memories and his journal. But the students in the present? They are all failures. Not one of them is creative, they just learn what was previously discovered and hope, at best, to replicate those past successes. None of them improve anything, none of them create something that did not exist before. Even when Hermoine made the coins for the DA, she used a spell she found.

Also, for a world where magical items seem to be rather important, Harry Potter and friends seem to know remarkably little about making such items. The best they can do, or rather Hermoine can do, is make a coin grow warm. Another important skill that none of them show any sign of knowing is making their own spells. I am sure Voldemort didn't just use a spell someone else made to make his horcruxes or the bowl with liquid that kills you with thirst. He made them. Likewise, Voldemort makes a silver hand for Peter (not even sure if he said any words), the spell that makes the dark mark, and almost every single time Dumbledore uses magic. Related to this is the stream of charms that Flitwick was able to use to defend Hogwarts when it was attacked, granted it seemed like no one but Flitwick was able to do this.

I find it ludicrous that Harry was able to fight off trained killers using the disarming spell almost to exclusion. It defies logic. A spell they learned in the second year of Hogwarts remained effective against the most dangerous wizards, until all of a sudden, it didn't. Of course, I refer to the moment that countering spells was taught in Hogwarts (this is related to my second complaint, the fact that nothing exists until it has been taught in Hogwarts). Then, all of a sudden the same tactics that would have been successful in earlier books, surprise spells and such, fail. Why? Cause the Professors (and enemies) have suddenly become amazingly good at countering spells.

In short, Hogwarts seems to be a terrible place to learn magic. This is even more disturbing when you realize that there is no "college" for them.

Second, as I stated before, things just get added to the world. I suspect this is because Rowling didn't quite think out the kinds of magic she would allow in her world, and just added it, without thinking of what the consequences of adding it should be to her world. These books are definitely no Earthsea. The first symptom of this is that many of the books had the "spell of the year." In the second book - disarming, in the third - patronus, and in the fourth, stunning and the three big ones. These spells are remarkably powerful when introduced, in fact grown wizards are depicted using them in professional work, and yet in previous books they are not used, sometimes by those same wizards. No one disarms anyone in the first book. No one stuns anyone before the fourth book, even though the professors, at the very least, should know it (particularly annoying when it's shown stunning a dragon, stunning evil wizards, **** stunning everyone in that book). Similar to this is the counter-spelling, suddenly introduced, and suddenly the Professors are proficient.

And of course, the killing spell. It's unblockable! Until it's revealed that it's not. No, all you need is a bit of older magic, some sacrifice, and it can be blocked. By magic. But then, there might be other ways to block it. It's just harder to block than other spells (not that this even means anything, almost all the spells seem to take instantaneous effect if they hit you and you can't do a damn thing about it). The best that can be said is that you seem unable to erect a shield that would block it, like you can with "minor" hexes/curses.
Another thing that was randomly added was the a spell that, amazingly, made you unable to betray someone! It would cost you your life. You know what, I wonder why Voldemort didn't make use of this spell. Did he think his people were trustworthy? Would that even matter to him? Also, combined with the secret keeper magic, it seems to be an unbeatable combo. Frankly, once that was introduced, I felt that James and Lily died for no reason whatsoever.

Not to mention that a world where truth serum exists should not be imprisoning people falsely. There is no way Sirius should have been imprisoned. It defies belief. But of course, in the third book truth serums did not exist because they had not been introduced yet. No, had to wait until the fourth book for that.

Portkeys were also added randomly. They could also be used to move in and out of Hogwarts, which was supposed to be impossible. But, I kind of gave up on Hogwarts security when the disappearing closet could be used to get in.

Third, just random inconsistencies in the universe. For example, polyjuice potion is remarkably overpowered. Combined with the spell that controls people, I find it remarkable that any government is possible at all. Or that wizards can trust anyone. Then there is question: given the existence of an ability to counter spells, why use spells that affect a single person? Peter blew up a whole street when he faked his death and, by all accounts, he was not a powerful wizard. More AOEs, less single target spells, would seem to be called for, and yet, what do the fights between the death eaters and the order look like? A **** **** storm of single target spells. Only Crabbe, Goyle, or whoever, seems to get it right when they make that fire that burns everything, and even then they can't control it properly.

Also, who made the defenses of Hogwarts? Who made the room of requirement? What kind of magic is involved in that? Who makes anything? It seemed like the whole book the only people who make things, who show up in the present, are Voldemort, Dumbledore, and the twins! Brooms, books that eat people, invisibility cloaks, the enemy detector, all of these are made (with the exception of the invisibility cloak) in mass numbers, and yet no mention is made as to who made them, nor do the students seem to be learning any skills that could be related to the creation of such items.

tl;dr: Rowling showed absolutely no planning of the universe past the third book and added things as she liked. Also, Hogwarts is a failure of a school, and Harry and his friends are terrible magic users.

Edit: Omg! I forgot something. Why would anyone who is capable of using the killing spell, use any other spell in a life or death situation? Why? When there is no "power" or "mana" or anything that they lose. In fact, no one in the Harry Potter universe seems to become tired at all when using magic, it seems to cost them nothing. Given this, why would you use anything but old faithful? Do they like handicapping themselves? Do they like seeing their spells blocked? Do they like failing? This is, of course, the only spell I can see being used other than AOEs.



I thought this was entertaining.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:24 pm 
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The books were written for kids. The fact that there aren't sparkly vampires in it adds to it's credibility and offsets any inconsistency it may display.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
The books were written for kids. The fact that there aren't sparkly vampires in it adds to it's credibility and offsets any inconsistency it may display.

This. Don't think about it too hard.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:35 pm 
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I honestly don't understand why it is perfectly acceptable to rage on one series of books aimed at a population under adulthood(twilight) but it is not acceptable to even give the smallest bit of criticism to another series of books aimed at a slightly younger audience(Harry Potter). Both are absolute drek to me(absolutely in the same category, nothing redeeming about either series), but I find it highly amusing when you people get pissed at people that don't agree with you on Harry Potter and yet wonder why Twilight is so popular.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 pm 
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If there were sparkly witches in Harry Potter I'd ridicule them too.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Harry Potter was not without its flaws, but it's far better than much of the current young adult/children's interest drek out there.

On a related note: it still utterly amazes me to this day that someone has not made a Harry Potter MMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:53 pm 
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I'm fairly certain a Harry Potter MMO is actually in the works.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:43 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
If there were sparkly witches in Harry Potter I'd ridicule them too.


It's not just Twilight. Remember Eragon? That was pretty popular, and it got just as much ****.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:55 am 
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Meh. There's a difference. Eragon and Twilight are actual crap regardless of one's age. The Harry Potter books start off as decent children's books. The maturity level of the books ages with the main characters, so by HP&tDH it's a decent book for a 17 year old. They're not bad stories.

They are, however, not nearly impressive enough to warrant JKR's billions. I don't get the widespread collective fanaticism.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:20 pm 
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/agree Talya

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:17 am 
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I would also suggest that some series handle complaints of the OP style better than others. I won't say these things are positives for the series or anything, but the enjoyment a lot of people get out of Harry Potter has nothing to do with the vaguely nitpicky problems from that review on reddit.

It's not an excuse for Rowling, but I suppose it goes more towards explaining why those criticisms don't do much to dent its popularity.

If the series focused on dueling, if it existed to fill a niche for people who wanted a series about wizards dueling, etc etc I think these criticisms would be a lot more damaging to the series as a whole.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:21 pm 
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One observation in response to the original rant concerning Harry and crew's skills and the introduction of new magics/items:

I gathered that (like their education) it was a progression. In their early years, Hogwarts students would not have been exposed to the more powerful magic spells/items for safety purposes. As time and maturity go on, they can begin to learn more.

Much of their premature exposure to these spells/items came from their various dealings with (and often being manipulated by) dark forces.
Reference:
Spoiler:
Crouch Jr disguised as Mad Eye Moody in Goblet who taught 4th years the three unforgivable curses. On a side note, Crouch Jr was, sadly, one of the best Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers they ever had.


Which also could explain why the trio seemed like bumbling amateurs at times. When you've got the weight of the kind of problems that cropped up in the books (especially for Harry), you've got more important things than school work to worry about.
For example, Harry's schoolwork piling up on him in Phoenix due to his dealing with Umbridge and
Spoiler:
Cedric's death/Voldemort's return


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:59 am 
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It never seemed to me that Hogwarts was really that concerned about the safety of it's student body...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:03 am 
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Wwen wrote:
It never seemed to me that Hogwarts was really that concerned about the safety of it's student body...


At least it wasn't Sunnydale High.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:17 am 
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I was horrified when the vampire showed up in the Harry Potter books. Luckily, it was fleeting.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:22 am 
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Then there is question...why use spells that affect a single person? Peter blew up a whole street when he faked his death and, by all accounts, he was not a powerful wizard. More AOEs, less single target spells, would seem to be called for, and yet, what do the fights between the death eaters and the order look like? A **** **** storm of single target spells.


This always bugged me too. Even the dreaded killing curse is just a single-target, line-of-sight spell. Hide behind a desk or a tree, and you're fine. So basically, the ultimate combat spell is no more powerful than a simple handgun, and with less precise aiming and a much slower rate of fire to boot. Awesome. If I were Harry, I'd have grabbed a couple of assault rifles, a shotgun or two, maybe a few grenades, and then gone to town on the big, bad Death Eaters. Or hell, just use the mind-control curse on the head of the RAF and call in a freakin' air strike! Accio Tomahawk mother-f*ckers!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:32 am 
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technology generally doesnt work in areas of high magic. Hogwarts specifically but presumably others.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Talya wrote:
They are, however, not nearly impressive enough to warrant JKR's billions. I don't get the widespread collective fanaticism.


I think her secret is that you have a a ton of very fun and likeable characters, an epic overarching plot with many good sub plots. In short a very good story, that makes up for any lack in writing skill that she has.

The really why she's worth billions is because the story is so approachable.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:34 pm 
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I think that she has amazing writing skill. Her stories keep you glued to the pages.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:22 pm 
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The first two for me were just meh, but once they hit the third book they rest were all really good.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:05 pm 
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I was reading last night and had a sudden thought:

In Goblet of Fire why didn't Harry just Accio Golden Egg?
Sure, we can say "oh, the egg was shielded because it wouldn't have been a very difficult challenge otherwise" but nobody told the champions that the egg would be shielded and none of them tried it. Harry worked his *** off to learn that spell. He had plenty of opportunity to come to the realization that summoning the egg would be a whole lot easier than the flying broomstick plan.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:59 pm 
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Re-read books 5-7 and the one major complaint I have of the series is just how . . . antiquated everything is.

I mean things like wearing robes and many wizards not knowing how to dress like Muggles, sending owls (or letters at all for that matter) for communication. I mean come on -- I'm sure rigging up some kind of magic-based cell phone service is not outside the realm of possibility.

Just seemed a little hokey to me that all this medieval/pre-industrial mindset was still prevalent even near the turn of the millennium.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:05 am 
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I dunno, Rodahn. The first book was published in 1997, and Rowling started writing it in 1990. The state of technology in 1990 was such that it's easily an acceptable idea that the magic used by the wizarding world was more efficient than muggle tech. After that, it's just a matter of sticking to the guidelines already established.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:20 am 
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Also, in modern-day tales of magic, technology and magic don't generally get along.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Yeah I know, and it was also a children's/young adults-oriented book who would be more fascinated by a more magical setting.

I guess I just would like to see a magical world where magic and technology co-exist. Just as a change of pace from literary convention.


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