The Glade 4.0

Not so much a rant as a general exposition of suckitude on the horizon:

I learned today that my dad is going to retire slightly earlier than he had planned. Although he has a healthy 401k and gets a decent pension, it still means there's going to be a large financial restructuring for the whole family.

Over the course of my life, I (and my brother, and his ex) have received a ton of financial support from my father, for which I have been grateful and appreciative. But with him living off a pension and his 401k, the same money flow just isn't gonna be there.

So what does this change entail? Well the biggie is the change of dwelling. My parents will most likely be moving to a more modest house, and either me or my brother are going to have to sell one of our houses. Now, my brother and I live literally next door to each other, so what will most likely end up happening is I will move out and he will take my house (as mine is currently the better of the two).

The one upshot to this is that even before this news, I had often toyed with the idea of moving back into an apartment (or something similar), so it's not like non-house living has never crossed my mind. My issues however are: will I be able to find a modestly-priced, decent apartment in a good area with non-noisy neighbors? Will this apartment allow dogs (I would prefer not having to get rid of my dog)? Will rent+utilities really be any less than a house?

Aside from that major issue, there are also other things that my dad has helped me out with, like car insurance and the occasional medical bill.

All of this wouldn't be such a bother to me if it weren't for the fact that I have such a shitty-paying job. I can barely afford to pay the bills I don't get help with and there is no way in hell I could make a large house/rent payment and still afford gas/food/bills. And given the area I live in and the current economy, just up and finding something better is not that easy.

Now, to be absolutely clear, I have no problems stepping up and "becoming my own man" as it were, as long as I have the means to do so.

Anyway, this is all happening 1-2 years from now, so I have some time to start planning things out, but that doesn't make it any less worrisome.

Ugh, just ugh.


EDIT: Just to clarify -- I am NOT asking for sympathy with this topic, nor am I in any way belittling anyone else who has more serious problems. Thank you all again who have giving actual, helpful input

Finding the means to step up and become your own man is what makes you an adult. Cut all financial ties now and start depending on only yourself. It's going to be rough, but you can do it.

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The Dude abides.

Yeah, I've been slowly trying to do that by taking over more payments that my dad has covered in the past.

Problem I am running into is my current income does not allow me to pay for many of the necessities of life. So it would be a choice between paying rent and barely scraping by with bills, but not eating and not being insured.

The best time to plant a tree, if you require shade today, is 20 years ago.

Perhaps you shouldn't have been a leech for so long. Less video games, more adulthood, yes? Oh wait... too late...

/tiny violin

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

EDIT: Nm, no longer taking the bait

Seriously? That's kind of a low blow. Seems to go under the "if you don't have anything nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all" category.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Wait a sec........are you John C Reilly, or Will Ferrell?

What's with the attacks, guys? Knock it off.

Rodahn, a lot of us never had any financial support from our parents....thats probably why you're getting ribbed...many of us have been on our own financially since before we graduated high school. Even when my parents were alive they did not bail me out of ANYTHING...forget gas money, I was homeless with a 4 mth old baby and when I asked for financial help of the huge sum of $165, my mom said no way and traipsed off to Europe for vacation..
I'm sure I'm not the only one...so, no, you're probably not going to get any sympathy here because your father's retirement (congratulations to him, btw) is putting YOU in a financial bind.
That being said, you've got lots of friends here. If support and sympathy is what you want, try posting maybe your monthly budget or something and your goals and stuff. Seems to me we have had quite a few productive conversations on budgeting, finances, and tools here over the years.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Might want to look into moving somewhere that has a lower cost of living if you can find a job somewhere. I have no idea where you live and what the cost of living is there, but it is always an option. Also, you might just have to suck it up and get an apartment, noisy neighbors or not.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

Well, I'm not necessarily looking for sympathy, rather constructive advise. Sorry, I guess I should have made that a little clearer in my OP. That still, however, should not be a carte blanche for personal attacks (myself included, which is why I edited my last reply).

Anyway, moving on to the subject at hand: It's kind of a complex situation -- on one hand, my parents have said on several occasions that they do not mind helping me as long I am actually trying to support myself as well, which I have been, and (as I posted earlier) I have been trying to financially emancipate myself for a while now. On the other hand, I have personally felt (and verbalized to them) these wishes for more independence, but realistically could not do anything about it. There is simply no way I could have supported myself fully on the jobs that I have held. And no, it's not just as easy as finding a better job or moving to a better-paying area, especially in the current economy.

I've worked for nearly half my life (about 15 years or so), so it's not like I'm just coasting on a free ride, and my parents have been pretty firm that they have no intention of allowing me to sponge 100% completely off of them.

As for finances, I make $8/hour working about 42 hours a week.

My biggest expenses are:
Medical (Varies, but I have a single prescription at almost $300/month, which I pay), house payment (nearly $700/month, which again, my father currently covers), car insurance (not sure on exact amount anymore, but I think around $100/month -- father covers, but might be able to take over myself), credit card bill (Varies, but I usually pay $100/month, and with me having to charge the aforementioned prescription, the total amount builds in a hurry), cable + internet bill (just under $100/month, I pay), food (varies, but I generally try to keep it around $100-120/week -- food is so damn expensive! I pay). Any remaining bills are under the $100/week or month threshold, so I pay those. So the really the two that my father currently handles are car + house, but they alone add up to an entire month's pay for me.

Luxury expenses (all paid for by me):
MMO account (Varies depending on whether I am currently playing one or not -- about $15/month), Netflix ($9/month), Gym ($40/month -- really need to keep this one going for health reasons), XBL Gold ($50/year -- such a long period billing that this is almost a non-issue). That's about it, really. Any other luxury purchases are few and far between enough to be non-issues.

Goals:
As mentioned already, to completely sever my financial dependence from anyone.

Also, to reduce non-essential recurring expenses. Netflix is the easiest to ax (since it's so easy to cancel/re-sub to it), and my use of it is fairly spare as of late. WoW account could be ganked as well, but really, as some others have mentioned in a previous thread, MMOs are actually a pretty cost-effective form of entertainment comparatively.

To find a good-paying career-oriented job. I'm pursuing some options, but really in this economy, it's a slow/hit-or-miss process.

If I can meet those goals, I think I'll be in pretty good shape, and then it's just a matter of maintaining.



Yeah, I've toyed with moving, but it seems like most everywhere else is being hit hard by this slump we're in. My current state, West Virginia, actually made out pretty well in the recession, due to some smart financial decisions by the powers that be. Still, not many good job opportunities around here, and people tend to hold onto those jobs for dear life. Like I said above, easier to dream about than to actually do.

As for the apartment, yeah, like I said in my OP, I have actually thought about it anyway to cut expenses and to help lighten the parental financial burden. I don't have much stuff, and the house I live in is a tad big for just me. My folks actually pushed for me to get a house (I guess so I could get a taste of the experience of being a home owner), but I don't mind living more Spartanly in something like a townhouse or an apartment, as long as it's not a roach/rat motel.

Are you considering an additional job?

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In time, this too shall pass.

I'm not sure how the rent is in WV, but you'd be hard pressed to find a decent place to rent for under $700 a month around here.

Honestly, if you have made the downpayment, rent is usually more expensive than mortgage payments. Maybe you could re-negotiate a longer loan with a lower monthly payment.

Personally, I pay around $950 a month for a relatively small single bedroom apartment.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Rodhan, you live in West Virginia? What part?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Kinda keeping that as a last resort. If at all possible, I'd prefer to stick with just one to lessen the insanity of holding two jobs. Also, it goes back to the general unavailability of jobs in this area. There are full-time job openings periodically at the place I am currently assigned to, but I have not been qualified for any of them so far.




We recently re-financed my house, which is the only reason it's below $700 now. Not sure what the rules work, but I don't think we'll be able to go any lower than that any time soon.

The nicer apartments here go for around $500/month. That said, I'm sure there are some cheaper, but knowing which ones is another story.

Another option my dad suggested was my brother and I moving in together, since I have more space, but uh yeah . . . not gonna happen. We'd drive each other nuts and I don't have that much more space.




Outside Huntington, in the Barboursville area. Comparatively, this area has it better than a lot of other places in WV. I've considered looking in the Charleston area for something, but I dunno if the grass would really be any greener over there.

If the Army Reserves are an option, send me a PM, I can put you in touch with some people.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The shitty areas here in Vegas are still close to $700 a month... I can honestly say you may need to look into a change in career or a second source of income.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I don't mean to be harsh, Rodahn, but now is not the time to be too picky in regards to your living situation/budget. You don't get the perfect life on $18k a year, period. You will have to compromise somewhere. Simple fact is that you don't make enough cash right now for your bills, possibly even if you do reduce your living expenses with an apartment (unless you go with Section 8 apartments, but you seem to be turning up your nose at typical Section 8 tenants). Living alone is great...but if getting a roommate and/or a second job means you keep a roof over your head, then do it. It comes down to the math...$350/month is cheaper than $500. You and your brother may actually "drive each other nuts"...but a stranger could be even worse (could be possibly better, but, still, its better the devil you know than the one you don't).

Your dad won't be subsidizing your lifestyle anymore, which means you have to live within your (rather limited) means. You must make hard choices, choices that you literally cannot avoid if you wish to maintain a semblance of your previous lifestyle. To do this you will have to, all at the same time: increase your income (second job, or massive OT if its available, or much better-paying job. From what you've said, second job is probably best. Or maybe you go landlord and rent out a bedroom {or more, if you have 'em}), and decrease your expenses, even going so far as to making serious changes/cuts in your spending (netflix and cable TV? Chose one, cancel the other. You don't need a gym membership, you want a gym membership--you can work out at home if you have to. Figure out a very basic grocery list and stick to it). Living completely on your own is expensive. That's why people in your income bracket don't often live alone unassisted.

Bottom line: You're not going to have near as much free time by yourself at home as you are apparently used to. That's reality. Plan for it now, realistically, or it will bite you in the arse.

Edit: Oh, and in the long run, rent is cheaper than owning, because rent covers maintenance. A mortgage payment does not...if stuff breaks, the owner pays for the repairs in addition to the mortgage. A renter just calls their landlord and the landlord absorbs the cost of the repairs as a business expense.

One way or another, everyone must pay for a roof over their heads. Owning is more expensive, but less restrictive; You can do what you want to your property. Renters don't get this advantage, but pay less.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

I've never lived alone my entire adult life. Roommates significantly lower the cost of living to such a degree that I've seen the reason that for the cost of some space in the kitchen and a room I won't use anyway that the benefits outweigh the costs.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Offhand thoughts:

1) I'm not going to begrudge anyone keeping at least a little money in entertainment, even on a shoestring budget, but you can definitely cut a significant portion of your entertainment/luxury budget. Notably, you didn't count the cable/internet in the luxury category -- it should be. Drop the cable entirely and get a cheap internet option (ex. $20/mo DSL). Drop the gym membership. Use the money saved to invest in a set of dumbbells instead. Take up jogging or cycling. Hit up craigslist/ebay/garage sales for cheap equipment. Consider nixing the XBL Gold and Netflix too, depending on how strapped you are.

2) I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but $100-$120/week (let's call it $450/mo) is way too much for a single person to be spending on food. That works out to ~$5 per meal, assuming 3 meals a day. What exactly are your arrangements for food? Because the only way I can see getting to that figure is by eating out every meal. I just bought enough groceries to feed 3 people for nearly month, and the total bill was ~$220. I wasn't even shopping around for the cheapest option, either. For a single person, $100/mo is an easy target. I'll grant that groceries might be more expensive in your area, but they can't be 4-5x more expensive.

Do you cook? Scratch that. You do now. I know you can read, and if you can read, you can cook. If you have no idea how/where to start, try to get a copy of The Southern Living Illustrated Cookbook. I don't think it's in print anymore, but you can get it dirt cheap, and it serves as a both a great cookbook and an excellence "how-to" reference for people who have never cooked before.

Try to do all of your grocery shopping once a month. It's less annoying, and you'll save money. Plan your meals. Cook in large batches on the weekends -- either twice a month or every week, depending on how you feel about cooking. Package it up and have it ready go during the week; You'll find it's no less (and possibly more) convenient than eating out. And done even halfway competently, it has the added benefit of being much cheaper, better for you, and better tasting.

Also, you mentioned that you live across the street from your brother. It's true what they say -- two can live almost as cheaply as one. Consider making the groceries a joint effort, and it will be that much cheaper. Spreading the cooking duties also makes things that much easier. Economy of scale definitely applies to cooking, in that cooking twice as much does not require twice as much effort. But you may find that you even enjoy cooking, in which the time you spend doing that can be money saved on entertainment, as well.

3) This brings up another possibility. I don't the nature of your relationship with your brother, but how feasible would it be for the two of you to move in together? (Edit: whoops, didn't see your earlier comment.) Mortgage/rent is another one of those things that will always be cheaper corporately than individually. Or, if not that, at least look into finding a roommate.

If you can, I'd try to find a way to own rather than lease/rent. My high school economics teacher used to say, "if you can afford to rent, you can afford to own". That's fundamentally true -- if it weren't, landlords wouldn't exist. Financially, it almost always makes more sense. Yes, the housing market could take a(nother) dive and your equity (if we can really call it that) would lose value, but when you rent you get nothing. So compared to the alternative, you still come out ahead.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

$8 an hour jobs are meant to be stepping stones to better paying jobs, not lifetime career choices.

Start looking for the next stones and stepping on them.

Also, I agree with Stathols comment about the gym membership. You can be healthy and exercise without going to an expensive gym. You don't even really need much equipment.

Look for other ways to be creative with your frugalness....

When the person making the payments, and facing a reduction in income, suggests a means to cut down on his monthly costs, one should find a way to make it happen. That you won't consider this option because of the inconvenience it places on you is poor.

I'll tag in on the food situation: I'll go out on a limb and say that food is probably more expensive here than where you are, and my wife and I do fine on about $70 a week for groceries, including cat food, dog food, litter, etc.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Thanks, at this point I am keeping my options pretty open, so who knows.

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If I can find a way to keep the gym but successfully cut other luxuries, I will shoot for that. Thing I like about the gym is that the machines there isolate parts of the body, which is harder to accomplish on your own with just a set of dumbbells. As for the cable/internet, I didn't list them as luxuries, because I see them as forms of communication, which can be pretty important. Of the two, I could probably get by on just internet service, as my use for TV waxes and wanes.



For health reasons, I buy a lot of whole/organic foods, which are notably more expensive. I could live on a much cheaper diet, but it would be a more unhealthy one. And I'm not sure how $100/month is possible, even for a single person. Three meals a day x 30 = ~$11.00 per day. Only way I could see that is getting cheap, extremely unhealthy food



Thought about suggesting moving in with him anyway, but I think he is more opposed to the idea than I am.



Well that kinda comes back to the crux of the matter of not having the income to own, unless it's the most craptastic house known to man, which would defeat the purpose by being more of a money pit.

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Oh I am. Problem is there just aren't that many around. The $8.00/hour is through a temp agency, BTW. A temp position that has lasted . . . 2.5 years now.

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Thank you to those who actually took the time to respond maturely. I'll figure something out. I'll have to . . .

This only reinforces my believe that life is not the price tag.

For those of you who aren't aware, having an $8 an hour job in West Virginia isn't that bad. At least you have a job, and one that doesn't involve a coal mine.

My now-ex unit (since I'm moving to Texas) was in WV, hence why I told Rodhan I could put him in touch with people - people I know personally, not some recruiter I never saw before.

Probably 1/3 of my soldiers had no job outside their Reserve duties and another 1/3 had some job similar to Rodhan's. The remaining third were almost all senior people (E-6 and above) or they were full-time reservists or Miltech civilian employees of the Army itself.

It's rough getting a job there. I mean rough. I found it depressing to drive to drill because you could just see the hopelessness as soon as you crossed the Ohio River.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."