The Glade 4.0

Well, if you want to listen to the conspiracy theorists, you should keep your mouth shut about the TSA because if you don't either the government that wants the control or the industry that makes billions off supplying the hardware will find some people that will blow up some planes for them to make sure they don't go out of business.

Or have little girls hold up signs for photo ops.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Yes, cause clearly every organization has no clue how to use simple measurement instrumentation, I've seen them measured in person, the numbers quoted are accurate.

The comparison with cells is in regards to the millimeter wave based systems, not the backscatter ones, millimeter wave = RF signals like what a cell phone produces, backscatter = x-ray.

And honestly if you're so worried about the tiny amounts of radiation in the backscatter based systems then you should think about flying twice because you receive significantly more radiation simply flying on the plane than you do from the scanner, if you fly from NY to Hawaii you're getting over 300 times the x-ray radiation from the sun than you are going thru one of the scanners.

The whole whining over the scanners is just proof that Americans have nothing better to do with their lives that ***** about pointless **** that actually helps them because it's a change, and god forbid things change even if it is for their benefit.

I know you can't conceive of this, but here's the thing: many of us think you're dead wrong about the bolded part.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

That isn't the argument DFK is making. Your company isn't exactly an unbiased source considering they're the ones trying to sell the product. Your company may be the most competent and authoritative on the subject of radiation safety, but lesser human beings almost always end up being the ones who make the final determination of what is "safe".

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Attitudes like this are the reason America is in the shitter. Go give away your liberty, you cannot give away another's.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I'm a bit confused... is the image in that second link the graphical representation of a real person in the scanner, or some "mannequin" as the name suggests? And if it is a mannequin, is that what it looks like? Or has the software generalized the features to the point of a cartoon like that? And what is the yellow box on the left thigh?

This happened back in May, so it's mostly fallen off the backscatter radar, but it's back in the news due to recent controversy. I saw it on Ars a couple days ago. I don't think it's been mentioned here yet. Adam Savage (of Mythbusters) apparently walked right through a body scanner earlier this year with 12" razor blades (and some nuts and bolts) in his pocket.

Google News results

Savage's monologue recounting the incident:

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

They catch threats, this is a fact, it's not what I think, do they catch everything? no, nothing is 100% effective, but they catch objects the old traditional methods don't catch, so they do help people regardless of their whining about "privacy issues", and I bet these same people have no issue going to the beach in a bikini, speedo, etc, which shows a lot more of your body than the scanners do, americans just need something to ***** about as usual, other countries it's not even a big issue because they don't have their heads up their arses and don't ***** about things that help them.



Well if people think they are not "safe" then they should not fly in the first place as the flight itself is far less "safe" and exposes you to significantly more radiation than the backscatter based scanners, also you should not use a cell if you are concerned with health issues either because cell phone use will cause more health issues than the body scanners in the airports would.



It's a graphical representation of the person that went thru the scanner and the yellow box is the location of the detected threat, the TSA employee monitoring the scans only sees that and not the actual scan itself.

Interesting, thanks for the info Sasandra.

Can you explain this? To my knowledge, cell phones don't operate a frequency with a high enough energy to damage cells. Do these scanners operate a lower frequency? If they'r X-ray then they obviously don't.

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The Dude abides.

I hope you just weren't thinking when you said this. Because otherwise it demonstrates a really appalling failure to understand the difference between consensual and non-consensual.

"Oh come on! She wore a bikini last summer; she was just asking to be stripped!"

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

And the air carrier terms and conditions are ignored again...

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In time, this too shall pass.

Shhhhh. We don't like inconvenient facts here.

I have all kinds of issues with going to the beach in a speedo, and I bet most of you would have issues with me doing that too.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

94% of people traveling more than 50 miles for the Thanksgiving holiday did so by car this year.

Anyone know the typical percentage of past years?

Air travel projected to be up 3.5% over last year.

http://www.kctv5.com/news/25945397/detail.html

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In time, this too shall pass.

And again, you're assuming that all airlines have such conditions, that these conditions are presented in such a way that they form a legally binding contract, and that everyone going through an airport is contracting with a large airline.

Edit: Oh, and also ignoring whether consent given under coercion really constitutes Constitutionally valid "consent", as raised in the ruling I quoted earlier.


Apparently so.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

No, the only inconvenient facts being ignored in this thread are the ones that contradict your assertion the carriers introduced these requirements into their contracts voluntarily.

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The assertion is - air carriers terms and conditions include the requirement that folks are responsible for clearing security.

Of course there isn't one single citation for proof, since every carrier has their own terms and conditions. If you want to assert that the carrier is not voluntarily introducing that provision, that's just fine ... please reference the source for that assertion.

Then explain how that realeases anyone from their obligation after they volunteer to participate by entering into the contract having been informed of those terms and conditions.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Burden of proof for positive assertions belongs on the person who made the positive assertion: that's you, Taskiss. You keep asserting these things are in carrier terms of service. Should be rather simple to substantiate your position. What I've provided, however, is proof that if said things are in those terms, they were introduced into those terms by the Federal Government and rather lengthy regulation of flight "security" dating back to the 1970s.

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Cell phones emit a high strength signal and studies have shown that that combined combined to the proximity to the phone to your brain when in use plus the frequency of use causes an increased risk for brain cancer, just like x-ray radiation can. The millimeter wave based systems operate on a much higher frequency than cell phones, millimeter wave is 30-300Ghz, cell phones are in the 700-2500Mhz range so the millimeter wave based systems have very low penetration into any object, plus the signal strength is about 10,000 times less than that of a cell phone as the signal only needs to travel a few feet, not posibly miles thru random objects in the way.

Backscatter based systems also have very little penetration into the body for that matter, they don't work like what most people thing of when they think x-rays, standard x-rays like what you get at your doctor or dentist penetrate thru your body and come out the other side and the exiting x-ray strength is picked up by detectors (or x-ray film typically for your dentist) on the far side to create the x-ray image, backscatter based systems are just strong enough to penetrate clothing and x-rays are bounced back at the x-ray source where there are detectors that pick up the x-rays scatter back to create the image, they are also far more effective at detecting plastic and organics are they scatter x-rays more than absorbing them.

For reference a backscatter based system exposes you to .01 mrem of radiation, you receive 26 mrem annually from cosmic radiation at sea level, 23-90 mrem from terrestrial radiation depending on where in the US you live, 40 mrem from food/water you consume amd 200 mrem from the air you breath.

Do you wear an LCD wrist watch? that's .06 mrem
How about porcelain crowns or false teeth? that's .07 mrem
Do you live in a stone, brick or concrete building? that's good for 7 mrem a year

Considering most people only fly a couple times a year at most you are probably getting more radiation from your dental work and watch than you are from a backscatter based scanner.

You have absolutely no rights to be able to fly anywhere, if you choose to fly that's your choice and you are consenting to the scan or pat down, no one's holding a gun to your head and telling you have to fly and go thru a security checkpoint on an airport. Are you going to next complain that your doctor asked you to get undressed and touch you for a physical because you didn't consent to it? He/She touched your junk, OMG, you've been violated.

30-300 Ghz is more dangerous than 700-2500Mhz. Penetration increases because the wave length is shorter. Furthermore these machines are emitting a much larger total amount of energy than cellphones and across the entire body. If the signal strength is so low, then why can cell phones use little batteries and yet these machines consume a lot of power? I think that you were brainwashed by your company.

edit: Maybe I'm wrong about the frequency part. But the total energy emitted is still greater. I don't think it's healthy to be microwaved.