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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:44 pm 
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http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.05 ... g=1&topic=

1997 Interview wrote:
Wired: How long will Moore's Law hold?

Moore:
It'll go for at least a few more generations of technology. Then, in about a decade, we're going to see a distinct slowing in the rate at which the doubling occurs. I haven't tried to estimate what the rate will be, but it might be half as fast - three years instead of eighteen months.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7080646.stm

2007 Interview wrote:

So what does he think will happen in the next 40 years?

"I'm through with making predictions," he chuckles. "Get it right once and quit."


:D


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:26 pm 
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http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2007/09/idf-gordon-mo-1/

2007 Interview with Wired wrote:
Moore reiterated, however, that there really are fundamental limits to his law, regardless of materials. Indeed, while he admitted to being “perpetually amazed” at how technologists have been pushing those limits out ahead of us, Moore said the end times are near. So when can you expect the law that has driven you to replace your computer every 2-3 years to be obsolete? You’ve got ten-to-15 years, according to Moore. You heard it from the man himself.


It's funny how he keeps claiming his law will end in "10 years".


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:50 pm 
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It should, but circuit design now is pretty much all about making sure that Moore's law continues to hold true. It's now no longer a prediction of a trend in circuit design, but a goal unto itself.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:30 am 
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CPU manufactures aren't chasing faster chips as much as they're chasing multiple core designs these days.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:33 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
CPU manufactures aren't chasing faster chips as much as they're chasing multiple core designs these days.


This still leads to faster processing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:49 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second

Quote:
Processor IPS Instructions / clock cycle Year Source
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 49,161 MIPS at 2.66 GHz 18.5[ 2006 [11]
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 59,455 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 18.6 2008 [13]
Intel Core i7 Extreme 965EE 76,383 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 23.9 2008 [14]
Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition i980EE 147,600 MIPS at 3.3 GHz 44.7 2010 [17]


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:14 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
CPU manufactures aren't chasing faster chips as much as they're chasing multiple core designs these days.


This still leads to faster processing.

Not faster, just more.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:17 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
CPU manufactures aren't chasing faster chips as much as they're chasing multiple core designs these days.


This still leads to faster processing.

Not faster, just more.


If you can perform 147 billion operations per second instead of 49 billion, then that is faster.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:30 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
If you can perform 147 billion operations per second instead of 49 billion, then that is faster.


Seems to me that is more, not faster. If you were performing 49billion in half a second, that would be faster. Performing more stuff in the same amount of time isn't faster, just more efficient, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:36 am 
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Yup. Faster and more are two different qualities.

Think BMW M3 vs. school bus

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:49 am 
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If you had a team of 8 people working on a house as opposed to 2, wouldn't you say the team of 8 would complete it faster?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:54 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
If you had a team of 8 people working on a house as opposed to 2, wouldn't you say the team of 8 would complete it faster?

If you only had one hammer, what's the difference?

The determing factor is, is the task capable of being performed in parallel or serially?

The answer is, more is more, and faster is faster, and there's a difference between the two.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:11 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
If you had a team of 8 people working on a house as opposed to 2, wouldn't you say the team of 8 would complete it faster?

If you only had one hammer, what's the difference?

The determing factor is, is the task capable of being performed in parallel or serially?

The answer is, more is more, and faster is faster, and there's a difference between the two.


Taskiss,

Almost all tasks are capable of being performed in parallel. However, it is conceptually more difficult to code that way.

Similarly, telling a computer to do something is much more conceptually difficult than doing it yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:18 am 
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So, you're clear on the difference between "more" and "faster". Good.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:33 am 
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If a woman can make a baby in 9 months, then 9 women should be able to make a baby in one month.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:38 am 
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shuyung wrote:
If a woman can make a baby in 9 months, then 9 women should be able to make a baby in one month.


Wow. I've been going about this the wrong way for so long! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:40 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
If you can perform 147 billion operations per second instead of 49 billion, then that is faster.


Seems to me that is more, not faster. If you were performing 49billion in half a second, that would be faster. Performing more stuff in the same amount of time isn't faster, just more efficient, right?
If you're traveling at 55mph, that isn't faster than 35mph, it's just more efficient, right? In order to really go faster, you'd have to travel 35 miles in half an hour.

Do you understand, now?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:44 am 
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Again... if someone is doing work on your house, and he says "We can bring in 4 more guys and get the job done faster", are you going to correct his English?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:53 am 
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Chances are, he won't be speaking English.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
If you're traveling at 55mph, that isn't faster than 35mph, it's just more efficient, right? In order to really go faster, you'd have to travel 35 miles in half an hour.

Do you understand, now?

Any traffic light that is timed for 35 mph is also timed for 70 mph.

Basically, that's the entirety of my vehicular operation philosophy.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
If you're traveling at 55mph, that isn't faster than 35mph, it's just more efficient, right? In order to really go faster, you'd have to travel 35 miles in half an hour.

Do you understand, now?

No, no, you've got it all wrong. That's not travelling faster, you're just covering more miles in the same amount of time.

But seriously: this is like some kind of bizarre flashback to the Pentium 4 "clock speed is king" ****. Work per second is work per second, people. In the logical sense, it doesn't matter how you get there. And the whole debate is moot anyway, because Moore's law doesn't actually say anything about speed, or IPS, or FLOPS in the first place. Moore's law is about transistor counts.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:13 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

Quote:
The megahertz myth, or less commonly the gigahertz myth, refers to the misconception of only using clock rate to compare the performance of different microprocessors. While clock rates are a valid way of comparing the performance of different speeds of the same model and type of processor, other factors such as pipeline depth and instruction sets can greatly affect the performance when considering different processors. For example, one processor may take one clock cycle to add two numbers and another clock cycle to multiply by a third number, whereas another processor may do the same calculation in one clock cycle. Comparisons between different types of processors are difficult because performance varies depending on the type of task. A benchmark is a more thorough way of measuring and comparing computer performance.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
Moore's law is about transistor counts.

And cost. Nobody ever remembers the cost factor.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:34 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
Stathol wrote:
Moore's law is about transistor counts.

And cost. Nobody ever remembers the cost factor.

Which is where the speed of a processor comes in. Faster clock rates require greater levels of power and greater environmental costs.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
Which is where the speed of a processor comes in. Faster clock rates require greater levels of power and greater environmental costs.
We're well beyond the general limits of increased power consumption as a solution to clock rate ceilings in most silicon semiconductor technology. Faster clock rates actually require improved thermal efficiency and molecular engineering.

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