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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:08 pm 
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The short version is the administration has told the Supreme Court that the hospitals and clinics cannot sue drug companies to enforce their right to keep discounts on drugs or to obtain reimbursement from companies that overcharge.

I'm weary about mandatory federal tenders, however still not 100% on what exactly was obamacare... so I thought I'd toss this to you guys for comment.

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U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices
By ROBERT PEAR
10 January 2011
The New York Times

Copyright 2011 The New York Times Company. All Rights Reserved. WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration, following a lengthy internal debate, has unexpectedly come down on the side of pharmaceutical companies that are accused of overcharging public hospitals and clinics that care for large numbers of poor people.

The administration has told the Supreme Court that the hospitals and clinics cannot sue drug companies to enforce their right to deep discounts on drugs or to obtain reimbursement from companies that overcharge.

It is a classic conflict: a political imperative for the administration -- to ensure that inexpensive drugs are available to the poor people who need them -- rubbing up against the Justice Department's fear of an onslaught of lawsuits by clinics and hospitals if the Supreme Court allows them to sue.

Sara Rosenbaum, a professor of health law and policy at George Washington University, said the case raises the question of whether the intended beneficiaries of a government program can enforce their right to assistance that is made available by Congress.

''You can parse the legal issues, as the Justice Department has done,'' Ms. Rosenbaum said. ''But the bottom line is that a lot of poor people and a lot of safety-net providers are not getting the discounts they are supposed to receive.''

The court is being asked to rule in a lawsuit brought by Santa Clara and Santa Cruz Counties in California against AstraZeneca and a number of other drug makers.

The counties contend that the companies overcharged for drugs supplied to their hospitals and clinics. An AstraZeneca spokesman, Tony Jewell, said the company ''believes that there is no evidence'' that the overcharges occurred.
Nationwide, more than 15,000 clinics and hospitals participate in the discount program, which cuts prices of prescription drugs by 30 to 50 percent. The providers spend more than $6 billion a year on drugs.

Santa Clara County, which includes the city of San Jose and is home to 1.8 million people, operates a public hospital and 12 clinics. Juniper L. Downs, a lawyer for the county, said: ''The intent of this program is to provide discounted drugs to eligible clinics and hospitals so we can deliver affordable medical services to individuals most in need. That would seem to be aligned with the broader health care goals of the Obama administration.''

But in a friend-of-the-court brief, the Justice Department said that only the federal government has the authority to enforce the drug-discount law, and that private lawsuits would interfere with that authority. Oral arguments in the case, Astra USA v. Santa Clara County, Calif., are scheduled for Jan. 19.
Asked to explain the administration's stance, a White House spokesman said, ''We will let the brief speak for itself.''

Several Democratic lawmakers expressed surprise at the Justice Department's position. ''The administration had a chance to put health care reform into action by defending the discounted drug program,'' said Representative Sam Farr of California. ''Instead, it chose to side with the pharmaceutical companies to preserve a loophole that overcharges providers and undermines the president's efforts to expand access to affordable health care.''

A federal health official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was recounting lawyer-client discussions inside the government, said: ''We really wanted to stand on the sidelines of this case. The Justice Department took the lead in solidifying the government's position because of a broader concern about the possible impact of the case beyond this one little program.''
The drug-discount program was created in 1992 under the Public Health Service Act. The law directed the secretary of health and human services to sign agreements with the companies that set maximum prices for drugs sold to certain health care providers. They included community health centers; AIDS, tuberculosis and family-planning clinics; hospitals that serve large numbers of poor people; and children's hospitals.

Federal officials calculate the maximum price for each drug based on data that the manufacturers submit to the government.

The Department of Health and Human Services' inspector general found that drug manufacturers often overcharged clinics and hospitals over the last eight years but were rarely penalized by the government.

''In actual practice, manufacturers have been able to overcharge covered entities with impunity,'' said Ted Slafsky, executive director of Safety Net Hospitals for Pharmaceutical Access, which represents 600 hospitals in the drug-discount program.

For their part, the companies said the rules for calculating prices and discounts were ''exceedingly complex and technical.'' They rejected the idea that there was ''a single correct way'' to calculate prices.

The companies have signed agreements with the Department of Health and Human Services promising to provide discounts to clinics and hospitals that serve large numbers of poor and uninsured patients. In their lawsuit, the counties contend that these agreements are contracts, and that as ''intended beneficiaries'' the counties can sue to enforce them based on ''a bedrock principle'' of contract law.

Such lawsuits ''complement federal enforcement efforts,'' the counties said.
The Justice Department argues that the counties and clinics cannot sue because Congress has never given them that right.

The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco ruled in favor of the clinics and hospitals in December 2009. The drug companies appealed, with support from the Justice Department, which is urging the Supreme Court to reverse that decision.

The administration's position is similar to that taken by the drug manufacturers. Allowing lawsuits is ''a recipe for rampant confusion and inconsistency,'' the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America said in its own friend-of-the-court brief.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce said such lawsuits could ''wreak havoc'' and would have ''dire and sweeping consequences'' for other companies that do business with the government. ''The scope of federal contracting is enormous,'' the chamber said


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 pm 
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The United States government has been a corrupt entity for decades. Obamacare was a smoke and mirrors trick to convince the general public we were getting "national health care" so that we would be pleased with our new not-Bush government.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 pm 
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Uh...since when does the SCOTUS take orders from the president?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:29 pm 
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We have Congresscritters who are unaware that they're bound to follow the restrictions given in the Constitution. I found it perfectly easy to believe that our president thinks he's in charge of the Supreme Court.

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Last edited by Corolinth on Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:30 pm 
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He did give them a lecture in front of the nation before.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:46 pm 
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This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Same thing that would happen to the drug companies if they were forced to foot the bill?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Same thing that would happen to the drug companies if they were forced to foot the bill?


Not really. They would just be out the production costs, an absolutely miniscule amount compared to the R&D costs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43 pm 
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I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:42 am 
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Its more than just hugely expensive cancer/aids treatments though.
http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Template.c ... ntID=12192

Look at albuterol inhalers. Since 2009 there has been no generic albuterol inhaler available at all. Why? Not because the medication changed. Because the *propellant* changed. The federal government mandated that CFC containing inhalers would have to be replaced with new HFA propellant inhalers.

The result? Same medication, same delivery system, new patents. The aeverage retail price of a generic albuterol inhaler was about 15-20 bucks. It was a generic medication covered by almost all prescription plans as a generic formulary option. So if you had scrip coverage, you'd pay like 10 bucks.

After 2009, it became a name brand, non generic drug. Elevating the retail price to 30-45 bucks, and raising the insured rates to "name brand" status. For me, that went from 10 to 25 bucks.

Because the government was crying about CFC propellants... A widely used medication for millions of people doubled in price overnight.

The patents don't run out till 2012 at the earliest.

**** the government.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:02 am 
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Stathol wrote:
I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for...


From selling viagra, cialis, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:40 am 
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Müs wrote:
Its more than just hugely expensive cancer/aids treatments though.
http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Template.c ... ntID=12192

Look at albuterol inhalers. Since 2009 there has been no generic albuterol inhaler available at all. Why? Not because the medication changed. Because the *propellant* changed. The federal government mandated that CFC containing inhalers would have to be replaced with new HFA propellant inhalers.

The result? Same medication, same delivery system, new patents. The aeverage retail price of a generic albuterol inhaler was about 15-20 bucks. It was a generic medication covered by almost all prescription plans as a generic formulary option. So if you had scrip coverage, you'd pay like 10 bucks.

After 2009, it became a name brand, non generic drug. Elevating the retail price to 30-45 bucks, and raising the insured rates to "name brand" status. For me, that went from 10 to 25 bucks.

Because the government was crying about CFC propellants... A widely used medication for millions of people doubled in price overnight.

The patents don't run out till 2012 at the earliest.

**** the government.


I don't want skin cancer so a few asthmatics can breath cheaper.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:26 am 
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I can't imagine that the amount of CFCs in asthma inhalers could have any significant environmental impact.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:27 am 
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I can't say as it matters anyways, since Proventil, Ventolin, and generic Albuterol Sulfate inhalers were using HFA and non-CFC propellants back in 94. All the new legislation did was give the drug makers a new patent and push Generics off the market.

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Last edited by Khross on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:30 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
Stathol wrote:
I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for...


From selling viagra, cialis, etc.

Even so, if their other drugs run a negative balance, the logical business decision would be to stop developing them and only work on elective "designer drugs". I don't think that would be a good thing for, say, cancer patients.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:43 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense?


This is what happened to doctors already.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for...


R&D gets paid for by the people who do actually have money. When a drug company is developing a drug, they spend on R&D based on what they expect people to be able to pay for the resulting drug. Obviously, at least before this law, people who don't have money aren't factored in to their R&D caluclations. So when they're forced to supply a drug to someone that's indigent they're only out the production costs, because they never expected that person to pay "their share" of the R&D in the first place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:53 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I can't say as it matters anyways, since Proventil, Ventolin, and generic Albuterol Sulfate inhalers were using HFA and non-CFC propellants back in 94. All the new legislation did was give the drug makers a new patent and push Generics off the market.


This. It was all about the money.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Stathol wrote:
I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for...


R&D gets paid for by the people who do actually have money. When a drug company is developing a drug, they spend on R&D based on what they expect people to be able to pay for the resulting drug. Obviously, at least before this law, people who don't have money aren't factored in to their R&D caluclations. So when they're forced to supply a drug to someone that's indigent they're only out the production costs, because they never expected that person to pay "their share" of the R&D in the first place.


Today's R&D is paid for by yesterday's profits. It can take 10-15 years to develop a drug. And most drug candidates fail, some right at the very end, after tens of millions of dollars has been sunk into new technology (new assays often need to get developed to answer specific questions), tox studies, clinical trials, and the like. So now that profits are down, R&D expenditures are also down. Most big pharma companies have cut staff significantly, reorganized, and outsourced development (by partnering with smaller firms and academia, or by licensing their candidates) instead of doing it in house. And now that small molecular candidates are dwindling, they're looking towards biotech for new drugs (more complex, harder to copy, etc).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:14 pm 
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There's a patent cliff coming up at the end of 2011-2012, where lots of companies are scrambling to try anything to hold on to their patents. Generics will make prices cheaper, but remember generic companies are the ones who do not put any effort into developing any new drugs.

While I agree medicine prices suck, I don't believe stopping them making money is the way to go, as it might impact on how much money is going into R&D in general. Most multinationals have gone the way of acquisitions for new products rather than develop in house to lower prices, this has resulted in the billion take overs in the last couple of years.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
There's a patent cliff coming up at the end of 2011-2012, where lots of companies are scrambling to try anything to hold on to their patents. Generics will make prices cheaper, but remember generic companies are the ones who do not put any effort into developing any new drugs.

While I agree medicine prices suck, I don't believe stopping them making money is the way to go, as it might impact on how much money is going into R&D in general. Most multinationals have gone the way of acquisitions for new products rather than develop in house to lower prices, this has resulted in the billion take overs in the last couple of years.


Most of the R&D chemists were let go at my company. It's been pretty bad lately, lots of layoffs. The company says it's to reorganize and save money in advance of the patent cliff.

The CEO threw out some statistics, but I don't know the source. Approx. 10 cents of every health care dollar goes to prescription drugs. If you exclude generics from that equation, it's only 2-3 cents. Would be interesting to see where the numbers come from, and if they hold up to scrutiny. But it's in line with what our prior R&D head told us about 5 years ago, before the CEO joined our company.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense?


It would be nice if wonderful cures could just fall from the sky and people could get them without paying. However, they unfortunately take billions of dollars of research which has to come from somewhere.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:03 pm 
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zxczxcf wrote:
It would be nice if wonderful cures could just fall from the sky and people could get them without paying. However, they unfortunately take billions of dollars of research which has to come from somewhere.


And this point is not in contention. What appears to be in contention is that we have the government saying that the drug firms cannot be expected to accept a lesser price for the goods, AND the hospitals are being told "you have to treat people".

This is not about helping the people, it is about bankrupting the hospitals so they are forced to become government institutions.

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