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 Post subject: no state bail outs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:25 am 
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well if this passes at least.

http://biggovernment.com/bdarling/2011/ ... ore-223552

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Senator David Vitter (R-LA) introduced legislation yesterday to prevent the Federal Reserve from secretly bailing out states with budget problems. Senators Jim DeMint (R-SC) and Mike Crapo (R-ID) have joined the effort and signed onto S.251, the State Bailout Prevention Act. This legislation music to the taxpayer’s ears.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:51 am 
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Woot. Congress could still pass something that overrides it, of course, but then, at least, it's being publicly done by elected officials.

Odds on this passing the Senate?

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 Post subject: Re: no state bail outs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:10 am 
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The same odds as Democrats not playing the Race Card when they lose elections.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:15 am 
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I highly doubt the willingness of these Senators to live with the results were this legislation to actually become law.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:19 am 
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Aizle wrote:
I highly doubt the willingness of these Senators to live with the results were this legislation to actually become law.
Just like you highly doubt the willingness of the Democrats to live with the economic, bureaucratic, and political fall out of the Health Care Reform Act?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:44 am 
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Khross wrote:
Aizle wrote:
I highly doubt the willingness of these Senators to live with the results were this legislation to actually become law.
Just like you highly doubt the willingness of the Democrats to live with the economic, bureaucratic, and political fall out of the Health Care Reform Act?


Perhaps. I think much of the doomsday fear around the Health Care Reform Act is overblown, but there are for sure some eggs that are going to be broken.

However, letting States go bankrupt will have larger consequences I think.


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 Post subject: Re: no state bail outs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:58 am 
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What if the healthcare bill is one of the large reasons the states go bankrupt?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
However, letting States go bankrupt will have larger consequences I think.


You may be right. But if they require bailouts, shouldn't our ELECTED officials fund those bailouts?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Aizle wrote:
However, letting States go bankrupt will have larger consequences I think.


You may be right. But if they require bailouts, shouldn't our ELECTED officials fund those bailouts?


I'm kind of torn on this. I understand where you're going, and even conceptually agree with it. But at the same time, I also feel that politicians can often get sidetracked by the political advantage of a situation and use/abuse it. Where as those in positions like the Federal Reserve are hopefully a little more insulated from the politics and in more of a position to do what it objectively correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Aizle wrote:
However, letting States go bankrupt will have larger consequences I think.


You may be right. But if they require bailouts, shouldn't our ELECTED officials fund those bailouts?


I'm kind of torn on this. I understand where you're going, and even conceptually agree with it. But at the same time, I also feel that politicians can often get sidetracked by the political advantage of a situation and use/abuse it. Where as those in positions like the Federal Reserve are hopefully a little more insulated from the politics and in more of a position to do what it objectively correct.


This is an argument for dictatorship.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
This is an argument for dictatorship.


LOL, ooooook.

You're gonna need to explain how you arrived at that from my comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Rynar wrote:
This is an argument for dictatorship.


LOL, ooooook.

You're gonna need to explain how you arrived at that from my comments.


It is an argument for political insulation from the consequences of our leaders decision making. That is the antithesis of democracy.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Rynar wrote:
This is an argument for dictatorship.


LOL, ooooook.

You're gonna need to explain how you arrived at that from my comments.


Rynar's right. And so are you. There are legitimate benefits to this. A benevolent, highly-competent dictator is the most efficient form of government.

The problem is that it's not a very stable system.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:16 pm 
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how very Machiavellian of you


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Rynar's right. And so are you. There are legitimate benefits to this. A benevolent, highly-competent dictator is the most efficient form of government.

The problem is that it's not a very stable system.


The basic conundrum of politics...we've gone with something we innaccurately call "democracy" because it tends to slow the ability of government to oppress its citizens. However, it does this by making government utterly incompetent. There will never be an efficient or effective "democracy."

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Rynar wrote:
This is an argument for dictatorship.


LOL, ooooook.

You're gonna need to explain how you arrived at that from my comments.


It is an argument for political insulation from the consequences of our leaders decision making. That is the antithesis of democracy.


Only in the short term, since the officials at the Fed are placed by political appointees. But since those folks aren't directly elected, and are also chosen generally for the specific skillsets relevant to their post, they are somewhat insulated from the mob sentiment that often happens in politics.

As with anything it's a balance that has to be struck. I believe too much in either direction is a bad thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:55 am 
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Any government run by people is fallible. I think the American system as traditionally written works well because it recognized that and try to limit the amount of power that any one fallible person or group could have. The problem is we've gotten away from that.

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