The Glade 4.0

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02 ... forcement/



It's like watching a tennis match, back and forth we go.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Teeheehee! Arizona has really been a dark horse surprise coming up strong on Texas in the "delighting States' rights people" race lately.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I don't think people should be jailed unless they're doing something violent or destructive against others, or stealing, so I agree with not reimbursing them.

So because of your personal feelings, you'll overlook the rule of law. Good stuff.

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The Dude abides.

They're breaking the law, and that doesn't make it fair to all the good hard working people who do the paperwork and get it right. They're getting to be here for free when others have to work for it. Isn't that a form of stealing?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

All of Lex's political reasoning is based on how he feels about a topic.

I'm one of the people who got in legally, and I have to say the legal process is a little scummy. You can wait on a list for 7-14 years, and then hope you win the lottery for a slot, or you can get an immigration lawyer and essentially spend $20,000 to bypass the list and buy your way in. The Mexicans cannot get in legally because they simply can't afford it.

My girlfriend was on the list for seven years before she turned 21, qualified as an adult and the government told her she had to reapply by herself. That cost a lawyer and $10k to fix. Such a shitty system we've got here, it's ridiculous. "Give me your tired, your poor," my ***.

I don't care, and that doesn't make it stealing. They shouldn't go to jail for walking over land without harming anything. It's barbaric.

Honestly, there are very good reasons the immigration system works the way it does.

The fact is, Americans are not going to do backbreaking labor farm jobs. Those jobs are not worth minimum wage, (remember 90 hours/week even on minimum wage is not exactly a pittance, even if there's no overtime) but even if they paid minimum wage I suspect Americans would still not do them.

I get this suspicion because in Germany (admittedly not the US, but still first world with first world attitudes) they actually tried this. Germany has no minimum wage, in case you didn't know, so the government decided they would try subsidizing the farm labor jobs for German citizens. The jobs were worth like 7 Euro per hour for 80 hours a week and guess what? The Germans by and large turned up their noses and they still had to bring in immigrant labor.

This is the first world. People don't want to do 90 hours a week of manual labor in the outdoors in the first world.

Soon machines will do 100% of this manual labor instead of 95% or whatever it is, and then this aspect of the debate will be moot.

Repeal our entitlement systems and open the borders.

Win win.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Oh, there are plenty of theoretical solutions that would work great, but frankly, if you try to vote me into a 90-hour/week manual labor job, I'm fairly certain I can find five friends with votes that will vote to tell you to go **** yourself.

I can't afford a new car. The car companies mark them up way too much. We know how much value they loose once they are driven off the lot. Should I go steal one? No I'd go to jail and they'd take the car away.

That said I appreciate your effort and think the process needs reform.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Fixed.

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So how does that make him any different from the rest of you?

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I think my Irony-o-meter just pegged...

Where's the irony? They passed a law to let state resources perform the necessary tasks that the federal government was not committing the resources to perform.

The Federal government is trying to stop them from doing so, saying "that's none of your business, that's our job!" So Arizona is saying back, "If it's your job, **** do it so we don't have to."

Where's the irony?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Essentially it's "We're pissed you sued us, so we're going to sue you!" Seems pretty clear and obvious to me.

Really? It's all about hurt feelings and childishness, and not about the process by which the law works when you have major disagreements between the state and federal governments?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Please tell me your kidding.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Of course it's not all about hurt feelings. And obviously it's how the process works. What I'm amused by is that they are "outraged" that they were sued, when as you stated that's the process for working out major disagreements. Yet that outrage didn't prevent them from suing right back. Again, as is the process.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE SUING!

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Actually, it was rather outrageous that the Federal Government sued, and the Justice Department relocated the suit repeatedly until it got a sympathetic judge. It was more outrageous that the Federal Government used the arguments it did to get an injunction against the law as well.

There's no irony here. The Justice Department will relocate Arizona's suit until it gets a sympathetic judge, and the States and Citizens lose a First Amendment right. And after that is all said and done, you'll still defend the President directing that Justice Department.

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So Aizle since you do not appear to get it (or care)... We work for the same company. You run the maintenance department and part of that job is pest control.

You do maintenance, but there is a mouse infestation... My kitchen staff is constantly having mouse related trouble.

Since you will not get the job done, i take some of my departments budget and say "I will do it myself"

You get pissy and run to HR about my department stepping onto your job. And they tell me ro cease and desist.

But i still have the mouse problem, why is it ironic for me to go to HR and demand that you do your job to keep the mice out?

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut