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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I don't know if I buy that. "Obese" is defined as a BMI of 30. That's insanely high.

For reference, I would have to put on about 45 lbs to hit that. And I could definitely stand to lose a few pounds now. It's not like I'm skinny.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Arathain:

I'm 6'4". I weigh 247 lbs. BMI says I'm Obese and need to lose 60 lbs. or more.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:26 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Bring back that thing where they pinched your fat with calipers I say :)


That's not a bad method. The best method is underwater weighing.

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Hydrostatic Weighing

This is just a fancy way of saying underwater weighing. Like DEXA, this test is one of the more accurate ones. How it works:

* You sit on a scale inside a tank of water and blow out as much air as you can
* You are dunked underwater, where you blow out even more air
* Since fat is lighter than water, the more fat you have, the more you'll float. The scale measures underwater weight to figure out body density.
* The margin of error is around 2-3%, but the accuracy depends on the amount of air you expel. You have to blow it ALL out or it won't be as accurate.
* This is a difficult way to measure body fat since it can be uncomfortable and even scary to be dunked underwater with no air in the old lungs.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Squirrel Girl wrote:
Hydrostatic Weighing

This is just a fancy way of saying underwater weighing. Like DEXA, this test is one of the more accurate ones. How it works:

* You sit on a scale inside a tank of water and blow out as much air as you can
* You are dunked underwater, where you blow out even more air
* Since fat is lighter than water, the more fat you have, the more you'll float. The scale measures underwater weight to figure out body density.
* The margin of error is around 2-3%, but the accuracy depends on the amount of air you expel. You have to blow it ALL out or it won't be as accurate.
* This is a difficult way to measure body fat since it can be uncomfortable and even scary to be dunked underwater with no air in the old lungs.


Could I recommend an easier alternative? Borrowing the logic from another source...
Quote:
BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
BEDEMIR: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.


If fat floats, and wood floats then logically the higher the difference in weight between you and a duck the skinnier you are. Anyone know how much a duck weighs on average?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:17 pm 
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What species of duck? as a general average I'd have to say 8-10 pounds

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Arathain:

I'm 6'4". I weigh 247 lbs. BMI says I'm Obese and need to lose 60 lbs. or more.


Khross,

No. Loss of 1 lb would make you no longer "obese". Note that I have not argued that BMI is a good use for determining ideal weight, so the argument that you "should" lose 60 lbs is not applicable.

The point is, if you have a BMI of 30, you need to lose some friggin weight.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Arathain:

I have less than 7% Body Fat. So, go figure ... and 60 lbs. is the amount to not be overweight. BMI is almost totally useless.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:44 am 
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Leshani wrote:
What species of duck? as a general average I'd have to say 8-10 pounds

Damn, I am wasting away!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Arathain:

I have less than 7% Body Fat.


If you say so. If that's the case, it's exceedingly rare, and outside the realm of "normal".

If you're not normal, standard indices don't apply.

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So, go figure ... and 60 lbs. is the amount to not be overweight. BMI is almost totally useless.


Again, the 60lbs is COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, and 100% irrelevant to the point I am making. BMI is not a great indicator of what is an is not "overweight". What I said is that if you are defined as obese by the BMI, you're a fatty, and you need to lose some weight.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Again, the 60lbs is COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, and 100% irrelevant to the point I am making. BMI is not a great indicator of what is an is not "overweight". What I said is that if you are defined as obese by the BMI, you're a fatty, and you need to lose some weight.
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Nash, Dirk Nowiski, Kevin Garnett, Scottie Pippin ...

Actually, I'll just explain it this way. Any man over 6 feet tall with any sort of intentionally built muscle mass is likely obese according to BMI. Basketball players are the easiest examples of people regularly considered overweight or obese by the scale, while being in fantastic physical shape. Professional runners and swimmers also fall into that category.

Any man over 7 feet tall with a properly formed skeleton is obese before you weight anything other than his skeleton and skin. It's a horribly flawed metric.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Again, the 60lbs is COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, and 100% irrelevant to the point I am making. BMI is not a great indicator of what is an is not "overweight". What I said is that if you are defined as obese by the BMI, you're a fatty, and you need to lose some weight.
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Nash, Dirk Nowiski, Kevin Garnett, Scottie Pippin ...


Yep. Nothing abnormal about these guys.

Quote:
Actually, I'll just explain it this way. Any man over 6 feet tall with any sort of intentionally built muscle mass is likely obese according to BMI.


Let's see. My brother's 6-1 and 200 lbs, he could gain another ~30 lbs.

A friend, who lifts all the time is 6-2, 225lbs, nope. not obese (but getting closer to the index to be sure).

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Any man over 7 feet tall with a properly formed skeleton is obese before you weight anything other than his skeleton and skin. It's a horribly flawed metric.


What about being over 7 feet do you consider normal?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 am 
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The AP is reporting that the bill has passed the WI Assembly.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:55 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
The AP is reporting that the bill has passed the WI Assembly.


Yeah, most of the Democrats didn't get a chance to vote. They opened and closed voting almost immediately.

Of course, what I want to know is why there's no coverage of the part of the bill that allows the sale of public utilities with no oversight and no bids.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:23 am 
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Serienya wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
The AP is reporting that the bill has passed the WI Assembly.
Yeah, most of the Democrats didn't get a chance to vote. They opened and closed voting almost immediately.
Do you think politicians engaged in overt and deliberate criminal behavior should be allowed to vote?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:42 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Serienya wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
The AP is reporting that the bill has passed the WI Assembly.
Yeah, most of the Democrats didn't get a chance to vote. They opened and closed voting almost immediately.
Do you think politicians engaged in overt and deliberate criminal behavior should be allowed to vote?


Those they represent did not commit crimes.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:50 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Those they represent did not commit crimes.
Doesn't really matter. Every Democratic Lawmaker in Wisconsin that has skipped town is in Contempt of Congress. They have violated their oath of office; they have broken the law; and they have refused to answer legitimate summons to appear by their chamber of the State Congress. Should they be allowed to vote despite having broken numerous laws? More to the point, should their constituents allow them to break the law without demanding their removal from office, prosecution, and replacement?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:04 pm 
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dont most senate rules grant immunity to senators on the floor of the legislature? The spirt of that law being that they cannot be prosocuted for their advocacy for their constituents .


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:14 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
dont most senate rules grant immunity to senators on the floor of the legislature? The spirt of that law being that they cannot be prosocuted for their advocacy for their constituents .
Even the Federal Immunity Statute has exemptions for situations such as this. They are not protecting their constituents; they're actively sabotaging normal operations of the state legislature.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Serienya wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
The AP is reporting that the bill has passed the WI Assembly.
Yeah, most of the Democrats didn't get a chance to vote. They opened and closed voting almost immediately.
Do you think politicians engaged in overt and deliberate criminal behavior should be allowed to vote?

I don't understand why they "didn't get a chance to vote". The debate on the bill had been going on for 60 hours (filibustering and adding amendments), the Assembly leader gave a warning after 59 hours. The vote was then called at the appointed time...
A point of clarification, the WI Assembly members are akin to the US House of Representatives. The WI State Senators are the ones who slunk away and are in hiding in IL instead of performing their sworn duties, so the bill has yet to get a vote in the WI Senate.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Those they represent did not commit crimes.
Doesn't really matter. Every Democratic Lawmaker in Wisconsin that has skipped town is in Contempt of Congress. They have violated their oath of office; they have broken the law; and they have refused to answer legitimate summons to appear by their chamber of the State Congress. Should they be allowed to vote despite having broken numerous laws? More to the point, should their constituents allow them to break the law without demanding their removal from office, prosecution, and replacement?


Be honest - If the issue was something you felt strongly about, and a group of lawmakers skipped town to avoid a vote that would almost surely result in the issue going against you, would you call for their prosecution?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Riov, is your whole argument that "it's okay when it's my guys" or do you have principles guiding your argument?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:56 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Be honest - If the issue was something you felt strongly about, and a group of lawmakers skipped town to avoid a vote that would almost surely result in the issue going against you, would you call for their prosecution?
Yes. The Rule of Law matters more than my opinion on the position.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Well that's fairly admirable, but just like the liberals ignoring these crimes, I just don't see conservatives calling for the prosecution of conservative politicians if the vote were about, say, abortion.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:21 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Khross wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Those they represent did not commit crimes.
Doesn't really matter. Every Democratic Lawmaker in Wisconsin that has skipped town is in Contempt of Congress. They have violated their oath of office; they have broken the law; and they have refused to answer legitimate summons to appear by their chamber of the State Congress. Should they be allowed to vote despite having broken numerous laws? More to the point, should their constituents allow them to break the law without demanding their removal from office, prosecution, and replacement?


Be honest - If the issue was something you felt strongly about, and a group of lawmakers skipped town to avoid a vote that would almost surely result in the issue going against you, would you call for their prosecution?

I'd be calling him and telling him to go home and do his job or I'm going to do everything in my power to see he's fired. Ya know since he does work for me and all.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:13 am 
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It's the Senate. If it were about abortion, I'd tell him to get his *** on the podium and filibuster for 36 hours.

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