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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:51 pm 
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-momentum-utah-bill-brings-gold-standard/story?id=13377409&page=2

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Is Gold the New Black? States Look to Bring Gold Standard Back
Utah is First State to Recognize Gold and Silver as Legal Tender; Inflation Worries Loom
By HUMA KHAN
April 15, 2011

Starting in May, Utah residents will be able to shop in a currency other than the dollar -- gold, something that hasn't happened since 1933.

Utah became the first U.S. state last month to recognize gold and silver coins minted by the federal government as legal tender. More than a dozen other states are considering similar measures, and are expected to follow Utah's example. The move, proponents say, is caused by declining faith in the U.S. monetary system and concern about rising inflation.

The gold standard, a monetary system in which the dollar is valued against a certain weight of gold, lasted until the Great Depression, when the Federal Reserve confiscated gold held by the public. President Nixon abolished the conversion of dollars to gold at a fixed rate in 1971.

It doesn't literally mean people would pull out gold coins at the cash register. Instead, the Federal Reserve would be required by law to make their notes redeemable for gold and hold gold coins and bullion as reserves. The printing of U.S. dollars would also be weighed against the value of gold.

The last time the gold standard was seriously considered was during President Ronald Reagan's administration. Reagan appointed a commission in 1981 to study the role of gold in the U.S. monetary system, but the group mostly came out against it -- except for two members, including now-Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, a champion of the Tea Party movement.

Despite continued calls by proponents like Paul to consider the gold standard, it had mostly stayed under the radar, until now.

The Tea Party's growing momentum and rising inflation is giving new life to the issue, as evident in Utah.

"We are just now starting to see some interest. These actions by state legislatures are mostly symbolic -- declaring that people can use a one-ounce federally-minted gold coin at its face value of $50 doesn't really give people a reason to do that. But it's a statement by the state legislators that they are concerned by the state of the dollar," said Lawrence H. White, a professor of economics at George Mason University who has published several reports on the topic.

State lawmakers are "concerned about the future of the dollar, worried that [worse] inflation is coming," White said. "People need to have an alternative if the dollar melts down."

Economists Pay Attention

With the exception of Paul, the system has few vocal supporters in Washington, D.C., but it is starting to get more attention from economists amid surging inflation in the United States and around the world.

In February, J.P. Morgan Chase announced it would allow its clients to use gold as collateral for some loans.

Kansas City Federal Reserve President Thomas Hoenig said in January the gold standard is "a very legitimate monetary system" that could provide a longer period of price stability. He said, though, that it wouldn't necessarily prevent a crisis or help boost employment.

Late last year, World Bank president Robert Zoellick said countries should consider "employing gold as an international reference point of market expectations about inflation, deflation and future currency values" to build a more cooperative, international system.

Proponents of the system argue that implementing a gold standard in the United States would lower the risk of the continuing fiscal crisis. The move by Utah, they say, sends a message to the federal government that states have more fear and little confidence in the U.S. monetary system.

"The reason it's more feasible now is that we are running out of answers to the monetary and financial chaos now. In 2008, when huge investment houses and banks started failing, people just couldn't get a loan, the whole system was paralyzed," said Jeff Bell, an adviser to Reagan in his 1976 and 1980 presidential campaigns, and now the policy director for the conservative group American Principles in Action.

Gold Coins as Currency?

The liquidity that the Federal Reserve created caused a bubble that "blew out millions of Americans' investment in their homes," he said. "The system is subject to these continuing crises now, and there's more and more inflation in the economy, so the time is right."

Opponents of the system, however, charge that switching to a gold system would expose countries to financial shocks, an argument that led to the abolition of the system during the Great Depression.

Others argue that switching to a gold standard would be costly for the U.S. government. They say it would be more effective if the Federal Reserve controlled the distribution of dollars instead, to rein in inflation.

No other countries in the world currently use the gold standard, which would also lessen the benefits for the United States and could end up reducing the dollar's value. Experts like White say European nations and Japan would also have to make the switch to make the system work better internationally.

It also limits the role of the central government in directing monetary policy, and would take away some powers from the Federal Reserve, though proponents argue that's the basic premise of the system.

But as the Tea Party, with its push to return to Constitutional values and cut spending, gains clout, and states consider bills like those in Utah, the issue is likely to once again find its way into the spotlight.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:01 pm 
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LOL


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
LOL


Really? This was all you had to offer? Why bother posting at all?

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Yeah, pretty much all I've got to offer. I find the whole thing silly and much ado about nothing. Gold is just as artificial a standard for monetary policy as anything else, but apparently it makes lolbertarians all warm and fuzzy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Well, I laughed 'cause of this:

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...people can use a one-ounce federally-minted gold coin at its face value of $50 doesn't really give people a reason to do that.


I'll take a pound of gold for $800, thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:29 pm 
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What a sweeping victory! Utah will allow its citizens to purchase things with gold & silver... coins minted by the Fed... if the Fed ever chooses to mint gold and/or silver coins.... Yay!

*breaks out the kazoo*

I think the better question is why you bothered posting this Rynar ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Gold standard is ridiculous and completely impractical. If you want to take libertarian advice on a currency system, private currencies are a much better alternative and might actually work.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
Well, I laughed 'cause of this:

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...people can use a one-ounce federally-minted gold coin at its face value of $50 doesn't really give people a reason to do that.


I'll take a pound of gold for $800, thanks!


That would actually be $600, gold is measured in troy ounces :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Gold standard is ridiculous and completely impractical.


Sorry. Fiat declarations aren't going to cut it. You'll have to explain why.

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If you want to take libertarian advice on a currency system, private currencies are a much better alternative and might actually work.


Obviously a mixed bag of competing commodity backed currencies would be best, but this has nothing at all to do with your prior assertion.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:20 pm 
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I'm confused. So if I had a gold dabloon Joe Blow who runs the gas station would be legally required to take it as payment; verify it's value and make paper change?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:53 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I'm confused. So if I had a gold dabloon Joe Blow who runs the gas station would be legally required to take it as payment; verify it's value and make paper change?

No, only if your doubloon was minted and issued by the Fed.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Quote:
Sorry. Fiat declarations aren't going to cut it. You'll have to explain why.


It solves none of the problems of fiat currency. There's not enough gold in existence to back the US dollar, so it would still be based on faith, as the government would never be able to redeem paper for gold if people tried to redeem even 1% of the money in circulation. Gold was selling for more than the official dollar/gold exchange rate even under Bretton Woods because everyone knew this. Even ignoring this, making the gold standard work requires virtually everyone in the world to play along, like they did under Bretton Woods, and we can't force this. Without such cooperation, we'll go bankrupt damn quick as other countries get to exchange their paper for our gold.

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Obviously a mixed bag of competing commodity backed currencies would be best, but this has nothing at all to do with your prior assertion.


The gold standard and private currencies are the two options for a "fixed" currency system that Ron Paul is always trotting out.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:52 pm 
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When people say gold standard today they mean mixed commodity currency. No one is suggesting a gold only as currency system.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Any arbitrary amount of gold can be tied to any arbitrary number of dollars, so that isn't really a problem unless a truely ridiculously small amount of gold is used, like a billion dollars per ounce of gold.

You can also restrict who, how, and when gold can be accessed by turning in dollars. Just make a law that only U.S. citizens can redeem the paper for gold.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Any arbitrary amount of gold can be tied to any arbitrary number of dollars, so that isn't really a problem unless a truely ridiculously small amount of gold is used, like a billion dollars per ounce of gold.

You can also restrict who, how, and when gold can be accessed by turning in dollars. Just make a law that only U.S. citizens can redeem the paper for gold.


If the "market value" of gold is $2,000/ounce but the exchange rate is set to $40,000 per ounce, then the currency is still mostly fiat. It's not a defense against inflation, because the money would have to lose 95% of its value before anyone would want to exchange it for gold.

I am honestly totally lost on what benefits could possibly come out of a gold standard without having the whole world submit to it. I suppose it could work to place a cap on the number of dollars in existence, but you don't need a commodity to do this, just pass a law saying the maximum number of dollars that can be printed every year is X. The legislature could modify X whenever they wanted for whatever political motive they wanted, of course, but under a gold standard they could just as easily and arbitrarily modify the dollar/gold exchange ratio. And there's no way you could prevent other countries from trading their paper for our gold, since the dollars represent gold. Even if US citizens were the only ones who could convert it, you could still trade your paper currency for an American's dollars, then trade the dollars back to another American to have him perform a service for you or make something for you. No matter how you break it down, people will still be able to trade their "worthless" fiat currencies for something of value from the US.


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