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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Yeah...I've witnessed two bicycle accidents in my lifetime and I took both victims to the hospital. The first had a broken leg, the second had a broken nose.
A helmet would not have helped either of them.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:16 pm 
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I used to think helmet laws for the motorcycles were silly, it should be a matter of personal choice... a trip to rotten dot com fixed that for me. As a person with a type M endorsement, I now support helmet laws for motorcycles.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:13 pm 
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When I was a teenager, I didn't wear a helmet; I wised up.
As a person with that same endorsement, who always wears a helmet (I own three), I don't support mandatory helmet laws.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Screeling wrote:
My friends and I never once had a "close call." We always played with everybody throwing from the same side.


Yeah. That seemed totally obvious to me too. The word "darts" seemed to imply that all opponents would be throwing at a single target from the same location. The addition of the word "lawn" did not make me and my friends want to turn it into "crazy dodge the projectile game". If I suggested to the guys I hang out with that we have a round of "Lawn Target Shooting", no one is gonna go running off to grab their catchers mit.


We always played with the same rules and positioning as horseshoes. Two teams, two targets, opposite sides.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:46 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
I used to think helmet laws for the motorcycles were silly, it should be a matter of personal choice... a trip to rotten dot com fixed that for me. As a person with a type M endorsement, I now support helmet laws for motorcycles.



Don't get me wrong, I'm all about wearing helmets, but what does the fact that brains get splattered when someones head hits the pavement have to do with forcing stupid people to wear one? Is this just a darwin thing? Protecting stupid people from themselves?

I always thought the justification for forcing people to wear helmets was something to do with saving the taxpayers money by preventing people from incurring injuries they couldn't afford to have treated ...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Pretty much that, not to mention making it a lot easier to deal with accidents. You can get traffic flowing again a lot faster when you don't have a dead body or someone being airlifted.

Hilariously, however, Ohio does not (last I checked) have a motorcycle helmet law, but apparently it has a bicycle helmet law now.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:14 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
darksiege wrote:
I used to think helmet laws for the motorcycles were silly, it should be a matter of personal choice... a trip to rotten dot com fixed that for me. As a person with a type M endorsement, I now support helmet laws for motorcycles.



Don't get me wrong, I'm all about wearing helmets, but what does the fact that brains get splattered when someones head hits the pavement have to do with forcing stupid people to wear one? Is this just a darwin thing? Protecting stupid people from themselves?

I always thought the justification for forcing people to wear helmets was something to do with saving the taxpayers money by preventing people from incurring injuries they couldn't afford to have treated ...


It forces up insurance rates. Also Darwinism is the same thing as letting people rape each other because it's "natural". People should be protected from their own stupidity. It's why we put guard rails on ledges and bridges.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
It forces up insurance rates. Also Darwinism is the same thing as letting people rape each other because it's "natural". People should be protected from their own stupidity. It's why we put guard rails on ledges and bridges.


Darwinism is not the same as letting people rape each other; one is allowing accidents to happen, another is allowing people to actually attack each other.

Furthermore, bridges and ledges have railings because people can fall for reasons other than stupidity, such as it being wet, icy, they are unsteady on their feet, young, or a myriad of other reasons.

We protect people from their own stupidity in order to protect everyone else from having to deal with the consequences. Protecting people from their own stupidity just to protect them is silly and generally not feasible anyhow because there is far too much stupidity to deal with.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It forces up insurance rates. Also Darwinism is the same thing as letting people rape each other because it's "natural". People should be protected from their own stupidity. It's why we put guard rails on ledges and bridges.


Darwinism is not the same as letting people rape each other; one is allowing accidents to happen, another is allowing people to actually attack each other.


In both cases, letting people act as unhindered agents results in bad events. This is why both should be prohibited.

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Furthermore, bridges and ledges have railings because people can fall for reasons other than stupidity, such as it being wet, icy, they are unsteady on their feet, young, or a myriad of other reasons.

We protect people from their own stupidity in order to protect everyone else from having to deal with the consequences. Protecting people from their own stupidity just to protect them is silly and generally not feasible anyhow because there is far too much stupidity to deal with.


Roads are often wet or icy, and drivers are often not paying attention. We should protect people from stupidity to save them from the consequences. Just because people are grown up doesn't mean they make the best decisions.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:00 pm 
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So Lex, do I hear you advocating legislating poor decision making?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
So Lex, do I hear you advocating legislating poor decision making?


Indeed, on a per case basis. It's a trade-off because liberty is valuable too.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Who gets to determine what criteria we use to decide what is too stupid to not be illegal?

I'm just curious. I have some ideas to submit...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
Who gets to determine what criteria we use to decide what is too stupid to not be illegal?

I'm just curious. I have some ideas to submit...


Pragmatically the legislators do, and the rest of the government, for obvious reasons.

I am just posting my own opinions on how I think the laws should be.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It forces up insurance rates. Also Darwinism is the same thing as letting people rape each other because it's "natural". People should be protected from their own stupidity. It's why we put guard rails on ledges and bridges.


Darwinism is not the same as letting people rape each other; one is allowing accidents to happen, another is allowing people to actually attack each other.


In both cases, letting people act as unhindered agents results in bad events. This is why both should be prohibited.


No, you are focusing on a single similarity, while ignoring major differences. At the very least, cost-benefit analysis proves these cannot be the same. Both shoudl not be prohibited because one is easily controlled by society as a matter of course in conducting its normal business of protecting citzens from predators; the other is protecting citizens against barely predictable accidents.

Try again; use your scientific education

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Roads are often wet or icy, and drivers are often not paying attention. We should protect people from stupidity to save them from the consequences. Just because people are grown up doesn't mean they make the best decisions.


Your second sentence in no way follows from your first, nor is it supported by your second. So what? Why should we protect people from their stupidity?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Midgen wrote:
Who gets to determine what criteria we use to decide what is too stupid to not be illegal?

I'm just curious. I have some ideas to submit...


Pragmatically the legislators do, and the rest of the government, for obvious reasons.

I am just posting my own opinions on how I think the laws should be.


TBH you deserve credit for admitting that you re saying what you feel should be, and not trying to imply that what you fell should be is what is. Perhaps you are improving.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:25 am 
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Midgen wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about wearing helmets, but what does the fact that brains get splattered when someones head hits the pavement have to do with forcing stupid people to wear one? Is this just a darwin thing? Protecting stupid people from themselves?

I always thought the justification for forcing people to wear helmets was something to do with saving the taxpayers money by preventing people from incurring injuries they couldn't afford to have treated ...


The pictures I saw at that time were of the people who had motorcycle accidents while not not wearing helmets.

I could not sleep for almost a week.

And a lot of people I know who ride call helmets Brain Buckets; "because they will not prevent your head from popping like a grape, but they hold your brains in nicely for the paramedics."

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:33 am 
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darksiege wrote:
And a lot of people I know who ride call helmets Brain Buckets; "because they will not prevent your head from popping like a grape, but they hold your brains in nicely for the paramedics."


Those people quite frankly are ignorant. A good quality helmet does not work like that in the slightest. Now, if they are refering to the metal caps that those against helmet laws often wear to technically follow the law, they might have a point.

There have been incidents where a motorcyclists head was RUN OVER by a semi-truck, but because he was wearing a helmet he walked away from the accident.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:44 am 
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Aizle wrote:
Those people quite frankly are ignorant. A good quality helmet does not work like that in the slightest. Now, if they are refering to the metal caps that those against helmet laws often wear to technically follow the law, they might have a point.


I am with you man.

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There have been incidents where a motorcyclists head was RUN OVER by a semi-truck, but because he was wearing a helmet he walked away from the accident.


THAT is awesome as hell.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:51 am 
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Along these lines, there was an old Bell Helmet poster in one of the motorcycle dealerships where I grew up.

If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.

I've always felt that was a very effective and true marketing campaign. Probably part of why I have an Arai Corsair helmet.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:56 am 
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Aizle wrote:
There have been incidents where a motorcyclists head was RUN OVER by a semi-truck, but because he was wearing a helmet he walked away from the accident.


I've been looking all over the web for info on this and can't find any.


*EDIT* Ah. Nevermind. Here it is: http://www.bicycle.net/2007/giro-helmet-helps-saves-man-head-when-he-gets-run-over-by-truck

Of note, however, it was not a motorcyclist or a motorcycle helmet, it was a bicyclist and a bicycle helmet. And it was not a semi-truck, it was a delivery truck.

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MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (AP) — Ryan Lipscomb lived to tell how it felt to have a truck run over his head. “Really strange,” he said.

Lipscomb, 26 of Seattle, suffered a concussion but was otherwise unhurt. He was shaken up, especially after he saw his mangled helmet.



Lipscomb, a graduate student in medical physics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, was riding down a bike path in Madison on Friday afternoon. As he approached an intersection, he said, he noticed the oncoming delivery truck preparing to make a right turn in front of him.

The truck wasn’t going to stop, Lipscomb said, so he slammed on his brakes, flipping his bike and landing in the street.

A moment later the truck rolled over his head.

“I didn’t see it coming, but I sure felt it roll over my head,” he told The Capital Times newspaper. “It feels really strange to have a truck run over your head.”

His black helmet was flattened, tread marks visible on the cracked frame.

Lipscomb was taken to a hospital and released about three hours later.

Police initially declined to call the incident a hit-and-run, saying it was unclear whether the driver knew someone had been hit. But Sgt. Bernie Gonzalez later updated the accident report to include the designation.

Police spokesman Mike Hanson said Tuesday there hasn’t been an arrest because investigators haven’t been able to identity the driver.

In a telephone interview Tuesday with The Associated Press, Lipscomb said he has had some lingering headaches and a stiff neck.

“All things considered, that’s about as good as it can get,” he said.

Despite the close call, he said, he has to focus on school because his qualifying exam for the Ph.D. program is next week.

“I think it will probably hit me when I’m done with exams,” Lipscomb said.

Lipscomb does plan to ride again, he just prefers to wait until after exams are over.

“After that, I’ll go out and get a new helmet and be back on my bike,” he said.

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Last edited by LadyKate on Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:00 pm 
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I wore full helmet with face shield. I took a dragonfly to the face shield that probably would have **** me up.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:29 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Aizle wrote:
There have been incidents where a motorcyclists head was RUN OVER by a semi-truck, but because he was wearing a helmet he walked away from the accident.


I've been looking all over the web for info on this and can't find any.


That's actually not the incident I was refering to, but similarly cool. It's been several years since the one I was remembering, and I learned about it from a friend of mine who works in the motorcycle industry. I made an attempt to try and find the source, but gave up after a bit which is why I didn't provide any further detail.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
I wore full helmet with face shield. I took a dragonfly to the face shield that probably would have **** me up.


Yup, full face is the only way to go IMHO. I've taken rocks to the head, kicked up by cars/trucks in front of me before that really knocked my head back. I can't even imagine what would have happened if I wasn't wearing a helmet then.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Pffft ...

Try getting hit in the face with a grasshopper at 5500 feet while pushing 120 nph.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:35 pm 
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