The Glade 4.0

Khross the annoying thing about you is that you very rarely express what you actually think. You're very good at telling people they're wrong about what they assume to be your position, though.

Please tell me in no uncertain terms whether you think Osama is alive or dead. If you don't mind, I'd also like to know if you believe the government's story. If not, what do you think happened? Aside from the shady behavior regarding the disposal of his body, what makes you doubt this news?

If you don't want to answer, please say so, but don't try to direct me with questions of your own.

This is no longer possible to know barring some sort of extraordinary event: either recovery of the body tossed into the sea or a live broadcast from Bin Laden.I have no reason to believe the story as currently told, because the government has taken action to make it unverifiable to the general public.I have no idea what happened.Actually, that's pretty much entire impetus for skepticism: destroying material evidence of this magnitude is absolutely improper and fundamentally stupid, precisely because it prevents verification of the claims made.

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I'm glad to see you are backing off your "it didn't happen" statement.



First, I disagree with the "stupidity" of this, but regardless, who cares? To whom do they need to prove anything?

Bin Laden is going on tour with TuPac and Biggie. I really think this idiotic administration is going the bread and circus route and will be fueling skepticism on purpouse.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

I didn't say "nut". There have been conspiracies. To believe them, when they are not "official" makes you a conspiracy theorist.

Don't get me wrong, there are some nutty theories out there, but there are real ones too.

Nonsense. There is no USA.

Ugh! Ok, 8 pages of bickering is getting a little tedious to read through...will someone please tell me (in case I missed it), why the US claims to have immediately dumped his body in the ocean instead of bringing it somewhere for proof/testing/etc?
That's the problem I have...dumping the body so quickly makes no sense other than a cover up.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Because the laws of Islam say the body must be buried within 24 hours of death. That's the official story.

They claim they did it to respect Islamic Tradition of burying the body within 24 hours, but that has since been debunked to some degree.

I think the 'why' question you ask and the fact that it was so soon, before any third party could verify, is partly what makes the thing so stinky in my opinion.

They offered DNA as evidence, and say they have a photo. Neither of those is useful without the body and no witnesses to validate it.

What is really driving my skepticism is the 'why'. I just don't understand why they worked so hard to get him 10 years later, when he's completely out of the picture and not really a threat to anyone...

To me, even if the whole thing was 'legit' and was pulled off as stated, it still smells like a huge media distraction....

Poor Khross. He's such a victim. No, dude, you assume people are foisting opinions on you when in reality they are not. This has been shown in previous threads, I believe.

I think the 24-hour burial, plus the "prevent a circus over the remains" is the why so soon.

This makes sense. I'm somewhere in the skeptic camp and the outright not believing it camp, not sure which. All I know is, something about all of this smells really fishy.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Think about what your'e saying Midgen?

If the claim is false, then Al Queda will come forward and disprove it soon enough. The Obama administration will look like morons and lose any crediblity they had.

If he's dead by some other means and this is a coverup to hide abuse thats certainly within the realm of possiblity. But it doesn't discount that he is dead.
(I highly doubt too many would mourn his 'rough treatment')

There are a large number of reasons to NOT produce a body. There are NO goods reasons to claim he's dead when he's not. (any potential uptick in popularity would be followed by a threefold drop in popularity WHEN (not if) the truth came out about such a lie.

Is that a buried-at-sea joke?

First of all TheRiov, I'm not convinced of anything at this point.

I'm quite willing to accept that OBL is dead. What I'm not convinced on at this point, is how that came about.

I just think the whole thing stinks... it just smells funny... It is entirely possible, and I'm willing to accept that it went down exactly the way the Administration is saying it did...

I'll say this one more time.. I'll use big red letters if you need me to....

What I question more than anything is "WHY?".

I don't see the point in spending all this time and money persuing OBL. I especially dont' see risking American lives doing it.

OBL was living in a compound in a city in the hart of Pakistan that is the home of several large Pakistani military compounds. Why not send the Pakistani's to arrest him?

Why not just Bomb him (Obama claims he cancelled an order to do this) ? They wanted evidence he was alive?

Well, dumping his body over the side of an aircraft carrier in the arabian sea is NOT a good way to appease the skeptics who wanted a body...

Perhaps the proof was for the US gov't not for anyone else.

I may want proof that I didn't get a tatoo on my junk when I was really drunk last night-- but I don't need to share it with the world.

That's delightfully Soviet ...

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And delightfully short sighted. They obviously had enough proof to send a couple of helicopters full of Navy Seals into a foreign country without their permission. They surely had enough to send in a predator or a tomahawk...

Ideally there should be nothing known to the US government that is not also known by its citizens.

What is the long term benifit of producing the body?
So some people question it? What does it actually harm? Yes there is doubt, but that doubt may actually stave off some of the violence that might otherwise ensue, certainly if his body had been despoiled or he had been tortured for information it would only cause problems.

wtf kind of analogy is that? Any excuse to bring your penis into a conversation??


I'm still not entirely convinced that OBL wasn't already dead. And even if he is/was still alive, I don't think the AQ would be racing to tell us the truth anyway....I think OBL benefits them just as much dead as alive.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No it was an attempt to bring a tiny bit of humor into the conversation.

Only if he were alive to do it. Simply because Obama is claiming he died yesterday does not stop him from having died years ago.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

For what conceivable reason would our government do this? Why wouldn't Bush have taken credit for killing him if it really happened years ago? I can't think of any plausible reason. Even if you assume that the Dems and Reps are essentially the same party and collude to stay in power, that's no reason to hide Obama's death, because then it wouldn't matter who you vote for.

No reasonable fake? Did not want to make a claim with sketchy intel again (we don't know if he is alive or dead really isn't much to make an announcement over where you administration won't seem more foolish).

What Obama is dead now to?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville