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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Basically he says the notion of a creator is a fairy tale, everyone knows the universe was created out of uh, nothing ... scientifically.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -no-heaven

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By John Roach

Stephen Hawking, the famous British physicist, called the notion of heaven a "fairy story" in an interview with The Guardian newspaper published today.

The physicist, 69, who was diagnosed with A.L.S. at age 21, made the heaven comment in response to a question about his fears of death.

"I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he told the newspaper.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven of afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark."

The comments are seen as going beyond those in his 2010 book, "The Grand Design," which stirred up passions with the observation that science can explain the universe's origin without invoking God.

Hawking has far outlived most people who have A.L.S., also known as Lou Gehrig's disease, producing important cosmological research and writing books. His "A Brief History of Time," published in 1988, has sold more than 9 million copies.

The Guardian interview is the latest the scientist has given to news media in recent weeks. It is published the day before he is scheduled to address the question "Why are we here?" at the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London.

In the talk, according to The Guardian, he will argue that the tiny fluctuations in the very early universe became the seeds from which galaxies, stars, and ultimately human life emerged.

"Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in," he said.


Link to the original Guardian article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/ ... -no-heaven

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:03 pm 
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So because you don't know who created the Universe, someone who likes lamb sacrifices made it?


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Interesting. I could have sworn reading years ago that he was religious.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:14 pm 
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He seems to be on a sliding scale as far as I can tell.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:20 pm 
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OMG, a big name scientist doesn't believe there's a God. Stop the presses.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:28 pm 
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He seems to be pushing the Atheist thing lately, it usually makes the news when he does. He's also been pushing that aliens will likely come to get us so we should colonize space.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:47 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Interesting. I could have sworn reading years ago that he was religious.

Ditto. He seems to swing wildly depending on his mood.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Dash wrote:
He seems to be pushing the Atheist thing lately, it usually makes the news when he does. He's also been pushing that aliens will likely come to get us so we should colonize space.


Hopwin wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Interesting. I could have sworn reading years ago that he was religious.

Ditto. He seems to swing wildly depending on his mood.


...and his mood seems to be schizophrenic.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Yes its good science to theorize about something we don't know about and that is anything that predates our universe. So that means the cause of our universe can be ANYTHING - everything is equally likely.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Developing technology to fight a war with an as-of-yet-unknown interstellar species would provide an enormous benefit to mankind even if such a threat should never emerge.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:45 pm 
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As long as they're not the Mooninites...

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm 
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If I was trapped in a husk of a body with such a mind I'd be bitter against the idea of a God too.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Interesting. I could have sworn reading years ago that he was religious.


Hawking is a pantheist (like Einstein was) and has been for a very long time. Pantheism deifies (but does not personalize) the natural universe itself. It does not rely on "fairy stories" as Hawking calls them like Heaven.

Larry King Live, December 25, 1999 wrote:
Larry King: Do you believe in God?
Stephen Hawking: Yes, if by God is meant the embodiment of the law of the universe.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Yeah his theories would have been easily understood back in 35 AD. What is it about parables that throw off the smarty pants folk?

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:
Yeah his theories would have been easily understood back in 35 AD. What is it about parables that throw off the smarty pants folk?


Parables are fine, as long as folks understand that they are parables. It's when people latch on to them as literal and factual truths that you have problems.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Yeah his theories would have been easily understood back in 35 AD. What is it about parables that throw off the smarty pants folk?


Parables are fine, as long as folks understand that they are parables. It's when people latch on to them as literal and factual truths that you have problems.


I definatly agree, and I feel the same way about scientific theories.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Yeah his theories would have been easily understood back in 35 AD. What is it about parables that throw off the smarty pants folk?


Parables are fine, as long as folks understand that they are parables. It's when people latch on to them as literal and factual truths that you have problems.


I definatly agree, and I feel the same way about scientific theories.


No matter how concrete some scientific fact ever becomes, it never advances beyond a "theory." Remember, even now, gravity is only a theory. You may leave the house tomorrow and float into the sky.

The word "theory" does not have the connotations in academics that it does in vernacular conversation. Theories are what got us to the moon (newtonian physics), drive modern medicine forward (evolutionary biology), enable our global positioning system (special relativity), help us understand earthquakes and vulcanism (plate techtonics), and keep advancing these fancy electronic devices we keep typing on (quantum mechanics.)

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:29 pm 
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If someone got to the age of thirty without learning that, it's not worth the time and effort to explain it to them.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:36 pm 
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I'm almost fairly certain that I was thought that there are levels of scientific fact called "laws" that are are more proven than theories, but I could be wrong. It's been a long time since I've cracked a science book. Maybe the term has fallen out of use. /shrug.

As for Steven, I'll say the same thing as I tell everyone else. If you're right you'll never know. You won't even have the opportunity to say "I told you so." If you're wrong, you'll find out someday. Of course my Bible says by then it's too late to do anything about it. If he's comfortable with that that's his business.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
As for Steven, I'll say the same thing as I tell everyone else. If you're right you'll never know. You won't even have the opportunity to say "I told you so." If you're wrong, you'll find out someday. Of course my Bible says by then it's too late to do anything about it. If he's comfortable with that that's his business.


Ah, but what if you're both wrong? What if the Sunni muslims are right? Wait, what if the Shia muslims are right? Oh no, perhaps the Sufi Muslims. Or the Westboro Baptist Church? Or any of hundreds of various religious faiths that all hold that if you do not follow their exact faith, you'll suffer damnation?

See, I've seen Dawkins asked what you just asked: "What if you're wrong?" He may very well be wrong. Dawkins is a bit more dogmatic than I like. But him being wrong doesn't make you right. This isn't a binary thing. One cannot live in fear of being wrong about that which nobody can prove. You simply believe what looks right, and hope that any God that may exist isn't as monstrously evil as the one christians worship. As for Heaven, Hawking's right about one thing - it has a lot in common with a "fairy story." The weight of evidence is equal for the possibility that there are Faeries in my garden. I rather like the idea, actually. I tell my daughter to watch for them, just in case our ancestors were right about them. God is a faerie story -- a tale told to explain natural wonders which man could not account for. It's possible those stories were right, even now that we can account for them. I won't live my life hedging bets on such things, though. There are an infinite number of faerie stories we'd have to worry about.

*throws salt over her shoulder.*

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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Last edited by Talya on Tue May 17, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:07 pm 
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That's the first misconception - that the existence of scientific law makes theory have less weight. It is not uncommon for a law to be a component part of a theory.

Take, for instance, electromagnetic theory. It is composed of (among other things):

1) Gauss's law for electric flux
2) Gauss's law for magnetism
3) Faraday's law of induction
4) Ampere's circuital law

Four laws come together to make one theory. Clearly, theory is just a lightly used word in the sciences that indicates our understanding is sketchy at best.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:18 pm 
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I imagine death to be much the same as those nights where your sleeps are so deep, you open your eyes and it's morning. No dreams, no awareness of time passing, no outside physical sensations.

just... nothingness... :psyduck:


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:40 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Developing technology to fight a war with an as-of-yet-unknown interstellar species would provide an enormous benefit to mankind even if such a threat should never emerge.

Plus think of all the applications/fun we could have with them in the meantime!

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:24 am 
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Laws are how things work theory is why we think it works this way. Theories don't become law and laws don't start out as theories.

Law is "its 95 degrees and 80% humidity out" a theory would be - its this way because it is summer.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:16 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Laws are how things work theory is why we think it works this way. Theories don't become law and laws don't start out as theories.

Law is "its 95 degrees and 80% humidity out" a theory would be - its this way because it is summer.


It's a good analogy, but not entirely accurate. Special Relativity, for example, is a theory. It makes detailed, precise mathematical predictions about spacetime that hold up well enough that they are able to use it to keep the global positioning system calibrated. The theory is all math, it doesn't really touch on "Why." Laws are more like individual component parts of theories.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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