The Glade 4.0

Being passionate about something is not a charecter flaw, however not being passionate enough to find out the reason behind your passion is... it's a type of laziness.

I admire your passion, but I also implore you to find out the reasoning behind it...

This is my problem with discussing "choice". If you don't agree with abortion (and I don't think LK does, but I could be wrong), then how do you determine when having a baby is the consequence of a bad mistake, and when it's a choice? There's adoption, but there's almost as bad of a stigma against adoption as abortion in many communities.

I assume that you would have to assume that the "choice" to have and raise a baby then is made by deciding to have sex... So where is the allowance for your child making a mistake, and supporting them through that mistake?

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Raltar said he loved me!

Forgive me for responding to a page 1 comment here, but I don't subscribe to the belief that by having a child, someone has "accepted responsibility". A lot of people have produced offspring. Not all of them are responsible individuals.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

People that have children very early are actually less responsible mentally than those who don't, so they should be taken care of more and have a safety net. So I have to disagree with LadyKate.

Let's not forget that the non-custodial parent is becoming a grandparent. How is it supposed to raise my rancor that my monthly child support check is likely being used to feed and clothe my grandchild? Rather than examining this from the viewpoint of a deadbeat dad who is looking for an excuse to get out of paying child support, maybe we should consider the point of view of a prospective grandparent who is concerned with the well-being of their family?

This issue is different than simply that of a parent paying child support. One can always raise the argument that a parent has children directly as a result of decisions they made. If you have unprotected sex, then you have to live with the consequences. That's a favorite argument for a lot of different topics. That also isn't how it works for grandparents. You don't get to decide when to have grandchildren. That is someone else's choice. You can't force your kids to have children, nor can you prevent them from doing so. Furthermore, by default, everything you own is going to pass on to them when you're gone.

You become a grandparent as a result of someone else's actions. The lot of a man paying child support for a teenage daughter that gets knocked up isn't radically different than that of a man who receives custody of his grandchildren after his daughter's untimely death. In fact, it's a great deal better, because the former scenario doesn't involve a great personal tragedy. The grandparents of a child custody case often have to face the possibility that they could be the ones who end up with custody of the child, even when we're not talking about teenage pregnancy. It's not at all unfair to consider that my child support check is being used to feed and clothe little baby Lenas when you realize how many grandparents end up with primary custody of a child on account of the parents being deceased, alcoholics, incarcerated, or any of a variety of reasons.

In fact, the best resolution to the scenario I outlined earlier if I behaved like a grandfather. Taamar is too young to have primary custody of a child. Raltar is still under 18 (otherwise he'd likely be going to jail), so his child support check isn't going to help the custodian much. Lydiaa's done such a fantastic job of raising Taamar, I'm sure the courts are eager to award her primary custody. None of this takes into account what Raltar's parents are doing.

That, ultimately, is why it's hard to find an established legal guideline for what happens in this scenario. This is definitely going to court to settle custody and child support. Much ado has been made of Lydiaa and myself, but we haven't mentioned anything about Raltar's parents. They've got a stake in this, too. Do they really want their grandson being raised in Lydiaa's home, while she's fighting with me over how much she's getting for Taamar's child support? If they decide Lenas is better off with them, how hard do you think it is for them to convince a judge?

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Custodial parent would still be the arbiter of said support right? So it's not like the child gets the money to spend how they see fit. Also I wonder how this would work if child gets married (grandchild or no). I'm not overly familiar with this system.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

More importantly, what happens if The dad of the grandbaby as to pay child support as well. Can the minor be the arbiter of those funds. Usually in legal situations the money would have to be put into a trust as well, with one or both parents being the trustee right?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

What an absolute quagmire. This whole mess is an ambitious lawyer's wet dream.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I think where this gets sketchy is in a scenario where a teenager makes the conscious decision to get pregnant. What is a non-custodial parents obligation to continue child support, and should it be increased to support the grandchild?

You haven't raised a teenager yet, have you?

You can probably stop the hoochie clothes for the most part, but as far as skipping school, smoking, trying out drinking or marijuana, if they want to they probably will.

You'll most likely catch them after the fact, and sooner rather than later because they think they are a lot more clever than they actually are, but catching them does not always happen in time to prevent a major problem.

My kid, thankfully, is a fairly modest dresser and doesn't like to show a ton of skin but I know for a fact she's experimented with smoking and pot, and that she's had sex and gotten a tattoo. I didn't find out about any of these things until afterthey happened. Since then I have my... own sources of intelligence to know whether they are still happening, but it's pretty hard to prevent a kid from trying things out. The only real defense is to make them not want to do it, and some kids simply won't not want to do certain things until they try it and find out it's not what it's made out to be.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Bottom line is the courts are going to go through everyone's pockets that they can in order to come up with the means to provide for the child.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

If the court decides the solution, then yes. If it doesn't, then all taxpayers will absorb the means 'cause the government will do what they feel is necessary.

Personally, I'd rather someone take care of their own families kids (even if the courts make them) before the government decides I need to help care for their kids.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Also, how does the situation change if we're talking about a male child? How does the child support Raltar's dad receives change when he decides that I'm a shitty parent and wants to raise Lenas?

Interesting notion. Thus far, no assumptions have been made at all regarding the identity of Raltar's parents. They haven't even been named, yet. I have thus far been operating under the assumption that you were around fifteen and therefore the court wouldn't grant you custody of the child in any event, norwould they grant it to Raltar. If Raltar were over eighteen himself, and a viable legal guardian, he'd be in jail for statutory rape.

Really, the custody issue would come down to myself, Lydiaa, and Raltar's parents.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Can I be Raltar's mom? I always wanted a child with an epic hobo beard.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I agree this is probably true. For most things, even as permanent as a tattoo, this is acceptable. Perhaps winding up with a kid or misdemeanor or worse, maybe not.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

The thing about having kids is that they're still yours even though you hate them.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Thankfully this particular tattoo is small and not in a terribly prominent location (outside of the ankle).

As for pregnancies and misdemeanors, no, it's not acceptable, but a lot of the time that's just the way it goes down. I've found the best thing is to be extremely strict about the most serious things and to try to be pretty relaxed about everything else as long as the grades are good.

Most kids will see for themselves that some things are stupid or dangerous before they try them, but even kids who want to please their parents usually can't see that for every teenage impulse - and sex is a big one because of the **** hormones (no pun intended). A lot of kids are pretty horrified by the idea of getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant but then when they're alone and the smooching starts it feels impossible to let those good feelings go.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

It's an M. Knight Shyamalan twist ending. Raltar's parents and Tamaar's parents are the same people.

Anyway, the bottom line for me is this: it doesn't make sense to demand adult accountability for teenagers having children while at the same time abdicating your own responsibility for having children. In other words, it's no secret that you are legally responsible for your children until the age of majority, which is 18 for most things, but as much as 21 for some. Much has been said about the teenager's choice to have a child (which may or may not even be the case), but little has been said about your (hypothetical "your") choice to have a child. And even if the other parent is absent/delinquent/whatever, it was your choice to have a child with and/or marry them. The responsibility for the consequences of those actions falls squarely on you. There aren't any "takesy-backsies" just because child-rearing didn't turn out you'd like hope, even if it the circumstances are such that it isn't "your fault", per se.

Pregnancy is a personal and dramatic situation, of course. But pragmatically speaking, it's just a bone-headed thing your child can do that will cost you money. I don't see why it should be treated any differently than any of the other bone-headed things your kid might do that would incur costs. Ex. if your delinquent son breaks all the windows out of an office building, the financial liability is likely to land on you, not him.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Oh ****! Sorry, Lenas. You're definitely going into foster care, now.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I'm getting a vasectomy.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

Too late you horn dog, told you to keep the snake in your pants.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

A long time ago, when I was a medical student, and on my OB rotation, the students got to solo deliver babies if the mother was otherwise healthy and on her second to fifth baby. One night (most healthy babies are born at night!) I delivered a baby for a 14 year old. Hell, I was older than the GRANDMOTHER present (She was 25.)

Grandma was soooo happy. I kid you not.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Good God, it was her second kid at 14?