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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Perfect Equilibrium
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http://www.cnbc.com/id/33620547

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Warren Buffett tells CNBC's Becky Quick that Berkshire Hathaway has talked to five big financial firms about buying their tax credits.

Buffett says he can't name any names due to confidentiality agreements, but notes that Berkshire has been buying tax credits since 1990 and will continue to do so in the future.

The Journal says Buffett's involvement "adds a twist to what was already a politically sensitive deal." The paper says the Treasury Department is "considering blocking any potential sale on the grounds that it wouldn't benefit taxpayers" since any money earned by Fannie would be offset when the buyers used the tax credits.

What used to be a "simple deal" in years past is now "fraught with political calculations, such as the perception of aiding a Wall Street giant at a time of popular anger against bankers."

Buffett's reputation could help shield Goldman from criticism of a deal. Buffett has a long-standing relationship with Goldman, including his very profitable $5 billion investment in the firm last fall at the height of the credit crisis.

The sale of tax credits by firms unable to use them is the result of a government program started in 1986 to encourage the construction of low-income housing.

The Journal says the recession has reduced demand for the tax credits because potential buyers no longer had profits that needed to be protected from taxes.

While demand is beginning to pick up as the economy starts to rebound, developers say credits are being sold for between 65 and 79 cents on the dollar, making them very attractive to buyers who do have profits that could be shielded.



ROFL, hypocritical ****, he is. The same guy who says taxes should be raised on people in his income bracket is going out and buying tax credits. If he really thought this, wouldn't he be an opponent of tax shields and not participate in them?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Kulidwen:

He's not a hypocritical bastard. He's a smart businessman. Raising taxes on the upper brackets of business and individuals creates a larger market for speculative tax shelter trading.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:33 pm 
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How does not indicate it's hypocritical? Regardless if this does create a secondary market for trading tax write-downs and write-offs, they have to be actually used. Whether specuative markets lose sight of the fundamental value of the trade is immaterial. When this is the case, price bubbles result.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:43 pm 
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Because Buffet is smart enough to ensure that his net free-capital gained will exceed the amount he pays in new taxes, Kulidwen.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:54 pm 
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I didn't say it wasn't savvy. I said it was hypocritical. Buffet is parading around on television programs, clearly in view of the public, championing tax increases on the rich.

However, if his real intention (and I have my doubts as Buffet didn't participate in derivatives trade more due to a self-admitted lack of understanding, rather than some sort of oracle-quality perception) is to grow some sort of secondary tax-avoidance market, it is still hypocritical.

Ultimately, such a market, if it indeed comes to fruition, will result in a speculative bubble of such assets. Specifically, I estimate it will result in an annual bubble sync'd to the fiscal year due to how tax filing works. I believe there will also be other speculative bubbles and collapses of such a market as the President's policy begins to address writing down assets as a tax liability reduction.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:41 pm 
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It's kinda like saying... 'go ahead and do it.. I'll just find a way to profit from it.. or at the very least marginalize the loss'...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:37 pm 
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ROFL, hypocritical ****, he is. The same guy who says taxes should be raised on people in his income bracket is going out and buying tax credits. If he really thought this, wouldn't he be an opponent of tax shields and not participate in them?


I have never been a WB fan, I think he takes credit for being a financial genius when all he does is leverage his massive assets to bully individual firms, sectors and markets.

With that said, as a businessman and an individual he'd be placing himself and his companies at a disadvantage by not taking advantage of every opportunity available.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:31 am 
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Take advantage of opportunity != campaigning around for Unconstitutional Governmental intervention in the market.

Were raising personal income taxes and thus artifically creating demand for tax shields (which don't exist naturally in a market) not the result of government intervention, I'd agree. But using that logic, we could say those who don't send lobbyists or try to otherwise coerce politicians into writing legislation that gives them a competitive advantage aren't taking advantage of every opportunity available.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:38 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
Take advantage of opportunity != campaigning around for Unconstitutional Governmental intervention in the market.

Were raising personal income taxes and thus artifically creating demand for tax shields (which don't exist naturally in a market) not the result of government intervention, I'd agree. But using that logic, we could say those who don't send lobbyists or try to otherwise coerce politicians into writing legislation that gives them a competitive advantage aren't taking advantage of every opportunity available.


I hate the guy but at least he is saying tax me more and I believe that if we did he would pay it, but until someone does... well you can't donate money to the government since they've never established a bureacracy of charitable contributions.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:51 am 
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I doubt that's true. There's nothing stopping him from writing a check and sending it in.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:37 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Rafael wrote:
Take advantage of opportunity != campaigning around for Unconstitutional Governmental intervention in the market.

Were raising personal income taxes and thus artifically creating demand for tax shields (which don't exist naturally in a market) not the result of government intervention, I'd agree. But using that logic, we could say those who don't send lobbyists or try to otherwise coerce politicians into writing legislation that gives them a competitive advantage aren't taking advantage of every opportunity available.


I hate the guy but at least he is saying tax me more and I believe that if we did he would pay it, but until someone does... well you can't donate money to the government since they've never established a bureacracy of charitable contributions.


Actually I believe you can do that. I recall a kid during the Clinton administration who'd had some success as a teen entrepreneur, and, feeling a sense of civic duty, sent a check for $1,000 to President Clinton. I recall seeing it on T.V.; he had a note with it asking that it be spent on the military, education, and the public debt (IIRC).

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:39 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
I hate the guy but at least he is saying tax me more and I believe that if we did he would pay it, but until someone does... well you can't donate money to the government since they've never established a bureacracy of charitable contributions.
I find this sadly problematic. The Wealthy, those in Buffet's tax brackets, already carry this country financially. The government has proven incapable of being fiscally responsible: the last thing we need to do is give them more money.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:44 am 
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Khross wrote:
I find this sadly problematic. The Wealthy, those in Buffet's tax brackets, already carry this country financially. The government has proven incapable of being fiscally responsible: the last thing we need to do is give them more money.


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