The Glade 4.0

And order can only exist if it is imposed?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

No, it can't only exist if it's imposed, but our only successful examples of societies are structured as such. Don't put words in my mouth.

Theft is immoral, but taxes are not theft.

Well, if you really want to know whether something is moral or not, one should ask the authorities on morality:

Santa thinks it's nice. (the price of coal is up.)
Mohammed believes they should be stoned.
Pixies take everything that's not tied down to start with anyway.
Jesus disapproves, but he forgives.
The Tooth Fairy is only concerned with Dental Care.
Buddha believes there must be evil so good can prove its purity above it.
The Easter Bunny actually eggs them on.

So, it seems the experts are split.

Now, rather than thinking in terms of binary, perhaps we can realize that it's not about what's "right," but about what works best.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

So then if order does not need to be imposed why do people feel restricted to only that type of order?

I disagree that we only have successful examples of imposed order. The family unit for one is a good example of it and so are many clan and tribal systems.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

How are they not theft? Do you have signed documents showing that all taxes that every person pays have been agreed to?

If someone does not agree to give another entity their property and that entity takes it by direct use of force or threat of force does that not qualify as theft?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Elmo, if you can provide me an example of a human society (not a household) that was advanced (this is important) for it's time while not having any kind of societal hierarchy, then I'll entertain your questions. Unless you're going to do so, stop with the Khross treatment.

I don't even agree with your statement about the family unit not having a hierarchy. They very much do. As do tribes (cheiftan? elders?).

The Icelandic Free State 930-1262

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Sounds hierarchical to me.

Keep reading. You said order. Hierarchical is ordered - it doesn't have to be imposed.

Pirate ships were often successful self-ordered systems. The Captain and Mate were voted in, and could be voted out at any time.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The situation for the common Icelandic citizen of 1011 doesn't seem any different from my current situation, as far as society goes. I don't have anything imposed on me unwillingly; aside from perhaps my rent... but that's the price I pay for living on someone else's property.

Oh, except for **** like this:

See that? Your wonderful free society stopped people from doing things in the privacy of their own homes. At that time, likely punishable by death.

Still waiting.

So being mandated to accept as payment a currency which loses value by design isn't an imposition on you?

Yeah it wasn't picture perfect but your statement was for an ordered society not born out of imposition. So if you want to cut off at 1000 then go from 930-999.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I use USD because it is the social norm, not because I am forced into doing so. I regularly barter services as well.

For its time, was the Icelandic society considered advanced? Did they pioneer anything? Give anything meaningful to the rest of humanity? I'm assuming there's a reason they don't take up much space in history books.

They sailed to Greenland, where they founded a colony, and managed to then sail to the New World.

So they were good sailors, but did they have any lasting effects on humanity as a whole? Perhaps that single point proves me wrong and proves Elmo right, however, I'll still argue that structured societies are (at the very least) more successful.

Edit - perhaps this would be good to know, did they accomplish those things in-between the years of 930-999?

There needs to be an entity with a monopoly on force. Otherwise specialization of labor is impossible, as anyone who does not spend a significant amount of effort learning how to fight and kill will have all their stuff taken away by those who have.

It sounds as if this girl is afflicted with some form of severe combined immunodeficiency. The different forms of SCID all appear to be treatable with a bone marrow transplant, the two most common by gene therapy. All treatments which seem to be at or below the cost of a year's worth of the injections you reference. Why does this girl need to receive these injections indefinitely?

So back to the injections. By your assumptions, 1000 people per month are required to keep this girl alive. Let's assume that they are all mercenary bastards and receive remuneration for their donations. If $10 of the amount they receive for their blood (and plasma) is for Ig(G probably), that means in the remaining $1k+ is found production, distribution, and profit. This breakdown is probably irreducible to lower cost, it's also probably the most unrealistic. $5? That leaves $6k+ for PDP. Reducible to some extent, probably still unrealistic. $1? Now we're getting somewhere. That leaves $10k+ for PDP. I don't know if you've noticed, but production and distribution costs, barring outside influence, only decrease over time. So what are the production and distribution costs for this injection today? Today vs. 10 years ago?

So to morals. Should 1000 people be on the hook for one person's life?

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It sounds like, in your scenario, there's already an entity with a monopoly on force.

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It's not SCID. SCID is quite different. I think a bone marrow transplant would still work but you have to find a matching donor and those still fatal about 1 time in 5. Beyond that, under a fully private system a bone marrow transplant would almost certainly be an automatic disqualification for receiving health insurance, leaving you screwed if any complications ever occur, or you ever get any other major illness ever again.

As far as the injections go, the blood donors are not paid. They're not "on the hook." However, if you want blood from a blood bank, you have to pay them for their costs of screening donors, taking the donations, testing the donations for bloodborne infection, storing the blood, and (sometimes) profit. Then you have to actually seperate the Ig from the plasma. You either have to do this under completely aseptic conditions, or you basically have to throw out the 1000 units of plasma after you're done because they are now contaminated. I'm not sure which one would be cheaper, but both add significant cost. Either you have to pay for the sterile equipment and process or you have to pay the blood bank extra because they're not getting usable blood plasma returned to them.

The thing is, as far as I know, intravenous Ig is not a patented product. That means there's no one company with a monopoly on it, meaning competition does exist. Probably not perfect competition, but assuming the cost would drop by 90% or something ridiculous is just totally unrealistic.

So you don't know what it is she has, you don't know any of the costs involved in anything, and yet you still want to hold this up as an example of a failure in the health care system. Have the parents contacted the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation? I am given to understand that this week's message to children is "Your Lives Matter". I also understand they have a lot of money.

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Only if that one person is the only way our navigators can travel the warp, and hold back the enemies of humanity.

/makes the sign of the Aquila.

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Holy shitsnacks!

You see, this is the fantasy I was talking about earlier. You don't know anything about it, but you simply assume the cost will be brought down to a level where people can afford it, almost as if by magic.

Do you own a television? How about a car?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I believe we already established that they were structured (ordered). The distinction was that it was not made so by force.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

So individuals who hold down full time specialized jobs and have hobbies in shooting and or combat related sports don't exist? Paintball and similar sports involve a lot of SBT that are applicable in armed conflict. Target shooting and hunting and especially 3 gun IDPA and IPSC are useful in armed combat.


Although things may act as if they have a monopoly of force even if they do not have one so long as they have societies consent to act as such.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville