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 Post subject: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:10 pm 
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use this website, Canadian dollar prices:

http://www.lucomputers.com

Build me a balanced gaming PC for $1100 or less. (I've played around with it, but I'm always undecided and haven't been keeping up with new hardware enough to know what I'm doing.)

Preferences:
ATi seems to be the clear price-to-performance winner, but i have no aversions to nVidia in general, if it's a better deal that I missed. I'd love to put a DX11 Radeon 5850 in it if it can be worked in. No crossfire or SLI solutions, please.
Windows 7 Home Premium included in the cost.
I'm okay with going with an old Q-series Core 2 quad if it is significantly cheaper, but the i5 or i7 don't appear that much more expensive.
I need at least a terabyte of drive space (the more, the merrier.)
Include a discrete sound card, please. Nothing overly fancy, a $50 SB X-Fi should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Entire PC from scratch? Case? Monitor? Keyboard? Mouse? Speakers?


Edit: Honestly, the pre-packed PC on the main page looks like a great better-than-average gaming rig and very similar to what I am running at home (my cpu is actually slower, but I've overclocked it to 3GHz).

http://www.lucomputers.com/site/system_ ... =1&id=2984

The video card is similar to mine. I have a 260 core 216. I can play Crysis on maximum, ultra detail with beautiful framerates.

But if you are wanting something a bit more custom, I could work on it (though I don't have a lot of time until I get home).

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Last edited by Numbuk on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:27 pm 
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http://www.lucomputers.com/site/view_co ... 8934035&30

I think that's close :)

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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Numbuk wrote:
Entire PC from scratch? Case? Monitor? Keyboard? Mouse? Speakers?


Don't need speakers, keyboard or mouse. Getting monitor elsewhere. I would need a case though.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Müs wrote:
http://www.lucomputers.com/site/view_configure_system.asp?cmd=email&system_code=38934035&30

I think that's close :)


Ick! AMD CPU?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Of course. H9 intel. :)

And you didn't specify :p

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Yes, if AMD ever again releases a competitive CPU that comes even close to Intel's performance at a similar price, I will happily switch back to AMD. Right now comparing AMD to Intel is like comparing Yugos to BMWs.

I was thinking something along these lines:

CPU: Intel Core i5 750 Quad Core 2.66GHz, 8MB, 2.5GT/s, 45nm, 95W
Motherboard: Gigabyte P55 Motherboard GA-P55M-UD2
Memory: KINGSTON 2GB (2X1G) DDR3-1333 (KVR1333D3N9K2/2G) x 2
Video Card: Gigabyte Video Card HD 4890 1G
Sound Cards: Creative Sound Blast X-FI XTREME AUDIO
Hard Drive: Western Digital 1TB 3.5" SATA II 32MB BLACK 7200RPM DUAL PROCESSOR (Western Digital1001FALS)
Optical Drive: LG 22X DVD RW +- Dual Layer
Network Adapter: Onboard Network Adapter
Case: 8197B Case
Power Supply: 500 Watt Generic Power Supply
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

$1,033.16 CAD

But I am really rather lost optimizing the above, looking for where I might skimp a bit, or where I should pay more and get something better.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Swap the vid card for this:
SAPPHIRE HD 4850X2 2GB DDR3 Video Card

More power for about the same price.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Swap the vid card for this:
SAPPHIRE HD 4850X2 2GB DDR3 Video Card

More power for about the same price.



Those X2 cards are big hot power consuming monsters. Would I need to get a bigger PSU then?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Yes, BUT its well worth it.

I have that video card, and its godly. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:39 pm 
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I would get a bigger power supply, honestly. 500W is really pushing it close with current gen video cards, even with low-power consumption ATI cards. All the other peripherals in the computer will really be putting it close to the danger zone.

Personally I would ditch the soundblaster. I've been a Creative soundblaster man for 16 years. I've owned every incarnation of it since the very first 8bit Soundblaster. SB 8 bit, Sb16, Sbawe32, sbawe64, sb live gamer, sb audigy 2, etc. etc. Onboard soundcards on motherboards are just as good these days as soundblasters for my daily use. Most do at least 5.1 surround (my current onboard can do 7.1). I stopped using my current soundblaster and made the switch to onboard sound several months back and haven't looked back. The card is still physically in my case, just disabled now. That alone should save you a bit of cash.

I would also recommend getting more than 2 GB of RAM. My recommendation would be a bare minimum of 4GB, if you wanted to have a gaming rig. In Age of Conan, the difference between 2GB and 4GB of RAM in populated cities is about the difference between 512MB of RAM and 2GB of RAM for populated cities in WOW.

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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Arafys wrote:
I have that video card, and its godly.


I'm really tempted to spend another $80 and get a 5850...a DX11 card in a new Windows 7 box seems almost mandatory.

Numbuk wrote:
I would get a bigger power supply, honestly. 500W is really pushing it close with current gen video cards, even with low-power consumption ATI cards. All the other peripherals in the computer will really be putting it close to the danger zone.


Noted. I was worried about that, actually.

Quote:
Personally I would ditch the soundblaster. I've been a Creative soundblaster man for 16 years. I've owned every incarnation of it since the very first 8bit Soundblaster. SB 8 bit, Sb16, Sbawe32, sbawe64, sb live gamer, sb audigy 2, etc. etc. Onboard soundcards on motherboards are just as good these days as soundblasters for my daily use. Most do at least 5.1 surround (my current onboard can do 7.1). I stopped using my current soundblaster and made the switch to onboard sound several months back and haven't looked back. The card is still physically in my case, just disabled now. That alone should save you a bit of cash.


I occasionally do a bit of fancy audio processing. Nothing high end, but I do find that the onboard system gives a much bigger CPU hit when I do. My laptop (an Intel Core Duo at 2GHz with onboard sound, obviously) slows to a crawl when doing anything fancy with audio. I really wish somebody was still using the Soundstorm onboard chipset that Nvidia used with their NForce2 boards, but that's long gone...maybe the faster quad core i5 will not have any difficulty with it. I don't know.

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I would also recommend getting more than 2 GB of RAM. My recommendation would be a bare minimum of 4GB, if you wanted to have a gaming rig. In Age of Conan, the difference between 2GB and 4GB of RAM in populated cities is about the difference between 512MB of RAM and 2GB of RAM for populated cities in WOW.



There's 4GB in the system I quoted above. (2x 2GB.)

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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:52 pm 
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I didn't see the x2 on the end of the whole string. I did see the (2X1G) though. So that means it would be a total of 4 DIMMS.....? The motherboard have that many DIMM slots?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Ah, I'll make it 2x2GB rather than 2x2x1GB. I went through it rather quickly.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:12 pm 
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I dunno about DX11 compatibility. Just doesn't seem worth it yet.

But the 5800 series are pretty damn shwervey.

I approve. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:26 am 
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I've been thinking about upgrading / building a new system as well. I'm still very early in the process of re-aquainting myself with whats out there.

I found this article rather interesting and informative over at Toms Hardware. Building a Balanced PC

It's the first in a series I'll probably be following.


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 Post subject: Re: Computer advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am 
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Numbuk wrote:
I would get a bigger power supply, honestly. 500W is really pushing it close with current gen video cards, even with low-power consumption ATI cards. All the other peripherals in the computer will really be putting it close to the danger zone.
The only reason this is remotely true is how everyone but SeaSonic rates their power supplies. My 400W SeaSonic runs my SLI 285GTX rig better than the 750W Enermax ever dreamed of doing it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:20 am 
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Thanks for that Khross; I was starting to get a niggling fear that my SeaSonic 500 was going to be unable to handle any additions I make to my rig.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Found something entertaining. AMD is far more upgrade friendly than Intel. I can take out the Phenom 9850 Black, and replace it with a Phenom II X4 965 Black with no fuss.

Straight upgrade, no swapping of the mobo.

If I wanted to do that with an Intel... I'd have to buy a completely new mobo, and probably new memory as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Found something entertaining. AMD is far more upgrade friendly than Intel. I can take out the Phenom 9850 Black, and replace it with a Phenom II X4 965 Black with no fuss.

Straight upgrade, no swapping of the mobo.

If I wanted to do that with an Intel... I'd have to buy a completely new mobo, and probably new memory as well.



Yes, however, by the time AMD comes out with a processor that can compete with Intel's current midrange, you'll need to replace your entire PC anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:32 pm 
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AMD is not that bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:45 pm 
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There was a time I swore by them (and the Athlon XP and early Athlon 64 and X2 lines were gold compared to the garbage Pentium 4s), but they currently cannot compete at all with Intel. They run hotter, consumer more power, and are far slower than any comparably priced (read: low end) processor from Intel. And Intel's cheapest price points are already so cheap that the few dollars one can save going AMD is much less than the sales tax you pay on the machine. I hope AMD becomes competitive again, I really do, because it's good for the consumer, but right now they simply are not.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:37 pm 
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The newer Phenom II's are much more competitive than most of AMD's previous offerings. I also read a couple of very favorable reviews lately about the new Athlon II X4's. Basically a $99 quad-core, with no need to upgrade most motherboards. Sure, they're not gonna compete with the Intel Core i7's, but that's not the market they are going for, anyway.

Talya wrote:
They run hotter, consumer more power, and are far slower than any comparably priced (read: low end) processor from Intel.


Not exactly sure this is the case anymore, either. The Phenom II and Athlon Black Editions have been killer overclockers. Most have been getting 800 Mhz or more overclocks, with STOCK cooling! I'd hardly say there's a heat issue there. Hell, the 720 X3 Phenom II even has the possibility to "unlock" the 4th core, with the right hardware combination, and it's a black edition, too. And the last time I checked, it was around $120. Not bad at all for a very good performing chip, that also has the potential to unlock a 4th core and get almost a 1 Ghz overclock.

Ahh, found a review at Tom's Hardware.

Quote:
Matching Core 2 Quad Q8200 at Lower Cost

The main competitor for the Athlon II X4 is Intel’s Core 2 Quad Q8000-series. In most benchmarks, the AMD processor gets close to the Q8200, but it can only beat it in a few of them (DivX, MainConcept, Adobe Premiere). However, AMD’s price point once again is lower than Intel’s, and the fact that an average mainstream AMD motherboard is still cheaper than an Intel equivalent leans the needle toward AMD. From a bang-per-buck perspective, the X4 620 is a smart move that brings quad-core performance into the low-end.

A New Upgrade Option

Finally, we want to point at the fact that the new processors, be it the Athlon II X3 or X4, are perfectly able to run on old Socket AM2 platforms. Should you consider keeping your mature Athlon 64 X2 system a while longer—let’s say until SATA/600 and USB 3.0 become mainstream in mid-2010—then buying an Athlon II X4 as a replacement for an older Athlon 64 X2 seems like a perfect option. Just be sure to check your motherboard manufacturer’s Web site for BIOS updates before purchasing.


And Overclocker's club.

Quote:
I have to say, I am very impressed with the new Athlon II X4 series processor. This baby performed very well despite having a low L2 cache, no L3 cache and a low clock speed of 2.6GHz. While it was no match for the Intel i7 series, it did come close when put up against the Intel i5 series in the gaming benchmarks and some of the scientific ones as well. When put up against the Phenom II X4 it came even closer, especially in benchmarks where the system as a whole was benchmarked and not just the CPU by itself. When it comes to overclocking, while it will not break any speed records, it did very well considering the multiplier is locked at 13x. I was able to turn up the reference clock to a nice 241MHz at 1.5 volts and the temperature stayed a cool maximum of 38C degrees under water, which is very cool considering the voltage pumping into it. When not overclocked, the processor never broke 25C degrees with the ambient temperature at a constant 22C degrees. This processor was a pleasure to use and shows great promise for those wanting to run a good and decently powerful system without spending a lot of money. At launch, the Athlon II X4 620 is going to be selling for only $99, which is unheard of for a quad core processor, especially one that performs this well for the price. When paired with the 790X motherboard used for this review, you have a nice setup for a workstation or a gaming computer for under $230. You have to admit, that is a very good start for that nice gaming rig you have been wanting to build but were limited on the funds. If you are needing a good quad core processor for your next build I would without a doubt encourage you to look into the new Athlon II X4 series because it will be money well spent.

Pros:
Under $100 for a Quad Core processor
Performs very well with price per performance ratio
DDR2 and DDR3 memory compatible
HyperTransport 3.0

Cons:
Low L2 cache and no L3 cache


And Anandtech

Quote:
Regardless of what it may seem like, this is not a repeat of AMD during the late K8 or during the Phenom days. AMD is relegated to competing in the sub-$200 space, it is actually very competitive in that space. These days, I'm sure that's not a bad position to be in. While I'm sure AMD would love to be able to demand more money for its processors, being able to demand any at all isn't a bad position to be in.

AMD effectively knocked 40% off the value of Intel's low end quad-core CPUs. The Athlon II X4 620 manages to, at $99, perform close enough to the Core 2 Quad Q8200 that the latter simply doesn't make any sense. Add another hundred dollars and you'll get a Core i5 750 (or less will get you into a Phenom II X4 945/955), but if you're on a strict budget you can't beat the 620.

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