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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:34 am 
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Obviously it needs more research to make sure it holds up but at least the kid is trying.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-new ... 20725.html

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:50 am 
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Well, his solution is certainly grounded in good science. Trees use sunlight as a primary source of energy, maybe we should make solar panels to resemble trees. Looking at his design, I can't really see where the Fibonacci sequence fits in, but I'm not a Fibonacci enthusiast.

Where this is likely to fall down is implementation. We use roof panels largely because roofs aren't being used for anything else, and also because it's rather inexpensive to make a flat sheet and attach it to a flat surface. How and where are these things going to be constructed? Are you going to cover your roof with little solar panel trees? Are you going to build a huge solar panel tree in your front yard? Either of those may be prohibitively expensive, or alternatively, may cost about as much or a little more than the 20% increase in efficiency is worth.

Now, those aren't problems he needs to be solving. He's a thirteen year-old kid who had a good idea. He deserves his accolades whether or not anyone manages to incorporate his design into a power grid.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Looking at his design, I can't really see where the Fibonacci sequence fits in, but I'm not a Fibonacci enthusiast.

I think it would, but it seems like his model didn't have as many branches as a normal tree would. Probably a budget thing considering he's 13. In plants it seems like the Fibonacci sequence basically boils down to a quarter turned starting point for each level up/down.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Fibonacci sequences in nature refer to the incredible prevalence of plants to do things in Fibonacci numbers and sequences. (stems and leaves in 1.2.3.5.8, 13 etc. groupings. Petals on flowers being predominately one of those numbers, also etc.). Yes, some plants do their growing in non-Fibonacci style, but they are the exception rather than the rule. By building the tree in Fibonacci sequence, the creator is following the example of some of the more sunlight gatherers in nature. It makes sense, and from the data supplied, works pretty well too.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:11 pm 
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I was waiting for someone to post this. It's actually not a breakthrough. He didn't innovate anything in a meaningful way, and in fact his conclusions are wrong.

Now, on the "we need more teens like this", I definitely agree.

(charts on link)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

Quote:
Solar-panel "trees" really are inferior (or: "In which hopelessly inept journalists reduce me to having to debunk a school science project")
Some poor 13-year-old kid is all over the news as having made a "solar breakthrough". The news is to blame. All the usual suspects -- popular environment blogs, tech magazines -- blindly parrot the words of this very misinformed (not to blame him, he's an unguided 13 year old) kid.

Usual suspects:

[Popular Science] 13-Year-Old Designs Super-Efficient Solar Array Based on the Fibonacci Sequence

[Slashdot] 13-Year-Old Uses Fibonacci Sequence For Solar Power Breakthrough

[Gizmodo] Genius 13-Year-Old Has a Solar Power Breakthrough

[The Atlantic Wire] 13-Year-Old Looks at Trees, Makes Solar Power Breakthrough

[UberGizmo] 13 year old uses Fibonacci sequence to improve solar efficiency

[Inhabitat] 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

[EarthTechling] He’s A Solar Pioneer, And Barely A Teen

[TreeHugger] 13-Year-Old Makes A Solar Breakthrough With Fibonacci Sequence

This is his writeup:

[AMNH] The Secret of the Fibonacci Sequence in Trees

Essential summary:

He's comparing arrangements of solar panels to maximize total electricity output
One is a conventional, flat, 45°-tilted (roughly latitude), south-facing array
The other is an oddly-arranged "tree" with panels facing all directions: up, down, towards a wall... (some Fibonacci mysticism involved here)
(Writeup has photos of both setups, and graphs of data)
Both experiments have equal numbers and types of solar cells
He measures the (open circuit) output voltage over the cells connected in series
He thinks the "tree" is superior (generates more electricity) than the optimal flat array
This is, I'm sad to say, clear nonsense. I'll take this in two parts: one, why his experiment is, unfortunately, completely broken (sorry again). Two, why the imagined result is impossible nonsense.

BROKEN EXPERIMENT

Most importantly, by mistake he did not measure power outputs from the solar cells. Instead he measured voltage, without a load attached ("open circuit"). They are barely related -- in solar cells, voltage is actually almost a constant, independent of power.

The actual power delivered by a solar cell is not linearly related to the open-circuit voltage; actually, as a semiconductor, it has a horribly nonlinear relationship. Here's the current-voltage (I-V) curve:

[National Instruments] Photovoltaic Cell I-V Characterization Theory


VOC denotes the "open circuit" voltage: when there is no load attached, and no current flows (I = 0). Power goes as V*I; a real solar system will maximize efficiency, by working at the point on the I-V curve which maximies power (PMAX).

The kid is measuring VOC. As it happens, this is practically independent of power output! Here's how the I-V curve changes with incident solar power ("irradiance", areal density of radiation in [W/m2]). As this solar module datasheet shows, VOC is almost a constant, regardless of incident light!


[BP Solar] 3 series solar panels Polycrystalline (Data sheet)

In this module, VOC stays close to 35 V, over a 5-fold range in irradiance. Whether the incident light is bright or dim, the open-circuit voltage is the same.

Of course, PMAX (not shown) goes up roughly linearly with solar input. You must expect this: when you have 5x more solar power input, you have ~5x more electric output. But in Power = Voltage * Current, it is current, not voltage, which increases. (For those who are familar wiht physics, this is reasonable because: twice the brightness doesn't mean twice as much energy per photon, but twice the number of photons. The voltage reflects the energy of individual excited electrons: an electron with 1 eV energy can travel against a 1 V potential difference. The maximum current depends on the number of such excited electrons. More light means more excited electrons, but each with the same energy.)

End result: measuring the solar cells' VOC over time, and adding them up, is garbage data, and has nothing to do with energy production.

UNREASONABLE THEORY

As for why the result is impossible. I'm not sure I understand the confusion by which people think there could be some advantage, to orienting panels at sub-optimal angles. That somehow combining sub-optimal panels, together, makes them generate more energy in the net. Here's my argument, in case it helps clear up misconceptions.

Take an collection of solar panels (indexed by 'i'). Their power output is the some of their individual outputs. So, their total energy output (power integrated over time) is also the sum of their total energy outputs.

Ptot = Σ Pi

∫ Ptot dt = ∫ (Σ Pi) dt = Σ (∫ Pi dt)

Etot = Σ Ei

Suppose some orientation of a solar panel, 'OPT' (maybe south-facing, latitude-tilted), is superior to some others, index them by 'i' (say, facing north, down, up, towards a wall...) Then adding together 'N' such panels, in any order, is strictly worse than a uniform array where all panels are at their individually-optimal angles:

Ei < EOPT (for i <- 1..N)

Σ Ei < N * EOPT

So: if the individual angles in the "tree" are worse then the 45°-tilted south-facing panels in the flat array (they obviously are), so is their combination.

(Implicit assumption: that the panels are non-interacting, e.g. they do not obstruct (shade) each other, or heat each other, etc. The panels in the "tree" do actually shade themselves, which makes them strictly worse and does not change this result).

OPEN QUESTIONS

How did this confused science project became international news?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Yea I was posting more for the effort than the actual possible discovery. Its always nice to see kids doing something constructive rather than watching Jersey Snore or Justin Bubber.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Killuas wrote:
Yea I was posting more for the effort than the actual possible discovery. Its always nice to see kids doing something constructive rather than watching Jersey Snore or Justin Bubber.


I agree. I think it's really great to see kids innovating like this, I wish we'd see a lot more of it. Still, I don't like how articles are blowing it out of proportion and making it seem like he discovered a breakthrough in making solar power more efficient.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Fibonacci sequences in nature refer to the incredible prevalence of plants to do things in Fibonacci numbers and sequences. (stems and leaves in 1.2.3.5.8, 13 etc. groupings. Petals on flowers being predominately one of those numbers, also etc.). Yes, some plants do their growing in non-Fibonacci style, but they are the exception rather than the rule. By building the tree in Fibonacci sequence, the creator is following the example of some of the more sunlight gatherers in nature. It makes sense, and from the data supplied, works pretty well too.
Yes, I understand how plants tend to grow in patterns stemming from Fibonacci numbers. What I mean is I can't see how his little project follows the pattern. All of his branches appear to have five panels. Great, five is a Fibonacci number. One number does not a sequence make.

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