The Glade 4.0

Not at all. There are exceptions, such as living with a parent who requires care and didn't plan well in order to aid them, being in a situation that truely (and rarely) occured through no fault of their own via. actual bad luck (which doesn't occur very often in a way that could have mitigated by prior good decision making), or being part of a family which possesses dynastic wealth.

Outside of those, and possibly a few other rare exceptions, there is a real financial burden being places on these generous and doting parents, who should be allocating their financial resources towards their retirement and elder-care. The costs add up to thousands of dollars a year in insurance, energy, and food costs alone; and any twenty-something or older child still living at home needs to be honest with themselves and realize that these costs are real. You may be saving yourself money, but you are doing it at the expense of your aging parents who many times don't have enough time left in the work force to make up the difference.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

There's lots of reasons someone could live with their parents. I've done so, between marriages. I've had to start over a couple of times as an adult, without a pot to pee in nor a window to throw it from.

I'm grateful that my family was there for me.

And, now that my moms all alone, she's lived with me a couple of times, recovering from surgery and injury.

What goes around comes around.

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In time, this too shall pass.

I sincerely hope that if you ever find yourself in your need, the people around you show you more compassion and humanity than you seem to posses. Not everything in life is about making sure that everyone gets exactly what they deserve. It's genuinely depressing that you think like this. And the really amusing part is that you're white-knighting for a group of people that you apparently don't have very much respect for. I have an idea: if you really respect these "generous and doting parents", how about you start with respecting their intelligence and capability to best decide for themselves how they should be spending their own money?

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

I'm not white-knighting for anyone. This just happens to be a situation I see all too often, and it's becoming a systemic societal problem. Most retirement plans are underfunded by hundreds of thousands of dollars against expected quality of life, and noticeable percentage of those parents who find themselves in this situation have adult children living at home. Given the unavoidable changes that will have to be made to Social Security and Medicare in the coming years, this these underfunded retirements and elder-care situations become extraordinarily problematic. People are living longer, and inflation compounds eroding savings and conservative investment portfolios. The odds are greater than a 50% chance that one spouse in a couple between the ages of 45-65 will live past the age of 90, and the sad truth is, Stathol, that most people don't understand this reality. Do you know what the retirement picture of someone with that current situation is? It's: Hope your kids will let you build an in-law on their house, are comfortable with changing your diapers, and are comfortable providing an acceptable and humane level of elder-care.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

So then you are, in fact, generalizing.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

So then you are not, in fact, reading all of my posts in this thread.

There are some exceptions, a few of which I listed. But your feelings on this don't change the financial realities of the situation, and they don't change the math. A single retiree, at the age of 67, should have in savings and conservative investments (with the investment's true yield calculating for actual after-tax value, if subject to any taxes) 15 times their pre-retirement pre-tax income if they want to be able to maintain their current lifestyle until death. A single income for two spouses must be twice that amount. And this model is built using government inflation data and a health Social Security and Medicare system. An overwhelming majority of professional Americans find themselves drastically and unrecoverably behind without drastic changes to their current lifestyles.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

You're looking at the situation as though each generation is a distinct economic entity, which I grant is the dominant view in modern American culture, but it's not the universal view in other cultures and eras. If you think of the family as a multi-generational unit, it actually makes far more economic sense for parents and children (and grandparents and grandkids) to live together as long as possible.

You've got really bad numbers.

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1+ RD

Families taking care of their own is how I tend to lean also. There is a lot of selfishness in people today, concern with what is best for them only. My parents took me back in when I sold my house and lost my savings doing it....they also are letting me house sit for no rent, while they are in Paris for my Dad's job. Since my parents are helping me out am I doing them a disservice, because later in life they won't have enough wealth to take care of themselves? I will be there when they need me, so that won't be an issue. I see so many neglect cases in the hospital from nursing homes...doesn't matter how expensive the home is. IMO families taking care of their own, having compassion, these are traits we need to foster in our children...not accruing enough wealth to possibly make it to age 90. A combo is definitely needed, families can take care of their loved ones, but sometimes skilled care is needed also. In the end, it's about mutual respect for everyone. Don't be a taker...give back when you can.

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

I haven't lived with my parents since I was a kid. When I ran into rough times and called my parents for help, they did the tough love route and reminded me that I have a good head on my shoulders and to figure it out...go to a church or a homeless shelter or something. They refused to bail me out of a mess that I had created myself through my poor life decisions. I was homeless for 6 weeks with a 7 month old baby, opening up cans of formula with a pocket knife...but I saved up enough money from my job to get my own apartment and pay my own bills...I didn't receive one single red cent from my parents during that time, but if I needed to call and ask for advice or cry or just talk, they were there for me.
They've since both passed away, but those life lessons were invaluable...I learned I could stand on my own two feet through ANYTHING, and I learned that no one was going to bail me out of the natural consequences of making poor choices, so I learned to make better decisions.
I totally agree that we should take care of our aging relatives, have them move in with us if necessary, but I disagree with a fully grown adult moving back in with their parents unless they are terminally ill or something.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I disagree with an adult moving back into a parents home when they are clearly taking advantage and not trying to pull their own weight. If a parent is able and wants to give their child help, that is an individual choice. But, it does not make the child any less of a person or unable to take care of themself because they are getting on their feet and accepting the help a parent is offering. Everyone parents differently and there are life lessons to be learned from your parents and their giving nature also. It just boils down to not being selfish IMO.

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

Every plan is different, but these core numbers are a strong baseline. These, of course, must be coupled with a strategic plan for rapidly rising elder-care costs.

To the rest of you:

It's a tough pill to swallow for some of you, for whatever your personal reasons, but I assure you living at home is harming your parents. Many of you seem to be saying, "They took care of me, so I'll take care of them," but none of you are considering the simple fact that your parents don't want to be dependant on you. They want to maintain the same financial freedom they've always enjoyed, and don't want to be placed on some allowance you've extended them. They want to remain in their own homes. They want to enjoy your company with the same parent/child relationship they've had with you your entire life, and don't want that relationship to turn into one more reminiscent of patient/caregiver. This assumes you're even competent to administer 24 hour elder-care nursing while maintaining a full-time job, paying they way for your own family, and saving for your own retirement. By all means, do what you want, but know the reality of the situation.

But I digress... I'm now done giving you free consulting.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Elder-care costs aren't even a concern; the 1500% of current gross income figure only applies once you cross $133,000.

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What number are you using for compounding inflation?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Pretty much this, I lived at home way longer than I should have and witnessed all my older siblings moving home at one point or another. It led to a lot of bad financial habits that have been difficult to break for all of us. It also created a take-care-of-me mentality amongst my sisters that resulted in their inability to fend for themselves or hold down a job.

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When did you turn into a condensending *******?

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

To be fair, Rynar's always been a condescending *******; he just got worse when he had to start working for someone else for a living.

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I suppose it was the moment you started mistaking the realities of financial planning for condescension.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

No, I know a condesending ******* when I see one. If you look down your nose at people on this forum you disagree with anymore, you're going to get a crick in your neck.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Living at home "sometimes" harms your parents net worth to the point of affecting their retirement. Not all the time. Yes, parents do sometimes want that independence, but as we age, we sometimes are not able to make the best decisions for our self, much like a child. So, just because a parent still wants to live at home after falling and fracturing their hip several times, does that mean that it is a sound decision? Probably not such a good idea to let them have their way. Skilled nursing care is sometimes needed and planning for that should be in people's minds, but the reality of today is the here and now bills come first and hope for the best for retirement.

Again, don't be selfish, think of your parents wishes and needs, they will think about your needs when you need them. That's what family is.

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

I see... tell me, when was the last time you sat down with your parents and discussed the totality of their plans for retirement, and how you factored into them?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I'm just talking about your recent attitude towards people. This "I'm better than you" thing you've got going is really something.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Money doesn't always provide quality of life

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

No, you are minimizing this. It usually harms them.


Again, minimizing. They nearly universally demand it, as they've generally become accustomed to having this independent in the preceding 65 years of their lives.


But they aren't children, and will deeply resent being treated as such. With enough resources and good planning, they will never have to relinquish control of their lives.


Sound planning gives them options, and those options allow them to maintain control over their own lives. It allows them to freedom to convert their homes into handicap friendly structures. It allows them the freedom to hire in-home nursing care. It allows them the freedom to select a quality assisted living community. It allows them the freedom to maintain control over their estate rather than relinquishing it to a nursing home, and then later being dependant on the state for care.


The best plans are put in place in your twenties and thirties. The best plans also never include "hoping for the best".

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Do you feel that there are things you have more expertise in than I do?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20