The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:48 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:58 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/02/w ... o-protest/

Quote:
Walker intends to charge citizens fee to protest

Free speech is getting expensive in Wisconsin.

Following demonstrations earlier this year which drew up to 100,000 people to the Wisconsin Capitol, Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed new policies that would require future protesters to pay in advance to stage an event, at a cost of $50 per hour, per Capitol Police officer.

Police may also require a liability insurance or a bond, according to The Milwaukee Journal Sentinal.

Demonstrators will also be on the hook for any damage and cleanup following protests. Walker’s administration had claimed that the pro-union protests earlier this year had costs as much as $7.5 million, but later admitted that the actual costs were far less.

Under the new policy, permits will be required for groups of four or more people who want to do any activity inside the Capitol. Groups of 100 or more gathering outside the Capitol must also apply for a permit 72 hours in advance. Police will have some leeway if unforeseen events lead to spontaneous gatherings.

American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin executive director Chris Ahmuty agreed with the state’s allowance for spontaneous protests, but worried that some groups might have their right to freedom of assembly curbed because they could not afford to pay.

“It leaves too much discretion to the Capitol Police,” Ahmuty told the Journal Sentinel.

For their part, many activists are vowing not to be cowed by the new rules.

“This will only embolden people and get them to protest louder,” Nicole Desautels, who participates in a daily pro-labor, sing-along protest, explained to The Chicago Tribune.

“We are exercising our free speech rights,” Kimi Ishikawa, who also takes part in the sing-along, insisted. “Nothing will stop us.”

Organizers said Monday that they had gotten half the signatures needed to force a recall election of Gov. Walker.

“Every day, every week and every month that goes by, the voters of my state will more clearly see the benefits of the [anti-union] reforms,” Walker told the Republican Governors Association Thursday. “People have a clear choice.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Quote:
Demonstrators will also be on the hook for any damage and cleanup following protests.


This is all I see that's necessary.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:06 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
They should have to pay for damages and clean up messes, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a fee up front.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
I'd get upset about this, but I can't afford it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:11 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
This article shows a bit less bias.
How does one collect damages from protesters after the fact? That said, I don't like the idea of charging beforehand.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:14 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
I agree that damages should be repaid. However, politicians seem to have realized that since they can't squelch protests directly, they've decided to legislate against them via any inconveniences said protests may cause.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:15 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
No doubt FarSky, but who pays the damages?

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:16 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Also, I'm pretty sure that protestors don't even want police there, so how are they charged per police officer? Who gets to dictate how many police officers are "necessary?"


Last edited by FarSky on Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:16 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
heheh, the police union?

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Congratulations, Occupy, look upon what you have wrought.

I am sympathetic, though, to the point Vindicarre makes. When I saw on the news they finally booted Occupy LA out of the park and were talking about the millions of dollars of cleanup that the park would now require, I actually made a comment to my family, "So, who took names as they were clearing the Occupiers out?"

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:19 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Congratulations, Occupy, look upon what you have wrought.

I'd wager this is less about an actual concern for damage reimbursement and more about a control over the population's ability to petition government for a redress of grievances.

It's a concern, sure, but I highly doubt it's the primary concern of those enacting this kind of legislation.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:26 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
FarSky wrote:
I agree that damages should be repaid. However, politicians seem to have realized that since they can't squelch protests directly, they've decided to legislate against them via any inconveniences said protests may cause.
This is not new ...

Free Speech Zones

Approved Protest Areas

...

And this isn't reserved to R's or D's.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:28 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
No, it isn't.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
FarSky wrote:
I'd wager this is less about an actual concern for damage reimbursement and more about a control over the population's ability to petition government for a redress of grievances.

Exactly. After all, a group of people who want to have a rally in support of a particular administration or policy are less likely to cause problems than a group who want to protest against said administration or policy, so even though the permit and fee requirements are ostensibly content-neutral, the practical effect is that restrictions and fees will be higher on the anti-government groups than they will be on the pro-government groups.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:43 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
This brings all new meaning to "free as in speech, not as in beer"

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:26 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
**** the damages. The government shouldn't have enacted policies unpopular enough to cause such large-scale protests in the first place. Now, since the damages would then get paid by the general public through taxes, I suggest if you're upset about the damages you take it out of a politician's ***. Preferably to make room for your foot.

Really, how many people have heard flag-waving morons crowing about how freedom isn't free? Guess what? It's not. Sometimes we get stuck with the damages. If you don't like it, go live someplace where they don't have free speech.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Corolinth wrote:
**** the damages.

**** the non-voting, non-contributing slackers that want to ***** about the problem but do nothing more.

The only thing standing in the way of the 99% from being the 1% is hard work, dedication and guts. Put a little bit of energy into making something of yourselves instead of sitting and shitting your comfy nests and THEN come talk to me about inequality.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
I am sympathetic, though, to the point Vindicarre makes. When I saw on the news they finally booted Occupy LA out of the park and were talking about the millions of dollars of cleanup that the park would now require, I actually made a comment to my family, "So, who took names as they were clearing the Occupiers out?"


The City is responsible for the damage. They didn't police the protest (and arrest vandals), they allowed the protesters to stay camped illegally for a long period of time.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:29 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
Corolinth wrote:
**** the damages. The government shouldn't have enacted policies unpopular enough to cause such large-scale protests in the first place.


Ummm, no, not a good plan.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:42 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Vindicarre wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
**** the damages. The government shouldn't have enacted policies unpopular enough to cause such large-scale protests in the first place.
Ummm, no, not a good plan.
Hmmmms ...

I have to think about this for a bit, but I don't think I agree, Vindi.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:45 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
I think it's foolish to allow 1% of a population to decide policy by showing up somewhere and wrecking the place.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:11 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
Rorinthas wrote:
They should have to pay for damages and clean up messes, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a fee up front.


I agree, but who knows what the right way to go about charging liability would be...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:19 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
Therein, as the Bard would say, lies the rub. I don't have any problem with registering a permit and holding the signatory responsible in court.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:49 pm
Posts: 3455
Location: St. Louis, MO
Taskiss wrote:
The only thing standing in the way of the 99% from being the 1% is hard work, dedication and guts.

That and math.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:57 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
Who paid for the damages of the biggest riot in American history? A riot which was caused by a minority, I might add.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 235 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group