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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Science gets more fun ...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Hmm, more fun for whom?

The show staff definitely is not having more fun, the homeowners in Dublin with damaged property are not having fun? The media seems to be having some fun with it, and of course the fans and both the non-fans of the show are having a bit of fun.

Just happy no people were harmed in the making of this fun. It has provided a realistic review of why cannons and other artillery were so danged popular (and still are) in the military.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Hmm, more fun for whom?

The show staff definitely is not having more fun, the homeowners in Dublin with damaged property are not having fun? The media seems to be having some fun with it, and of course the fans and both the non-fans of the show are having a bit of fun.

Just happy no people were harmed in the making of this fun. It has provided a realistic review of why cannons and other artillery were so danged popular (and still are) in the military.


Well, if my roof were hit with a cannonball fired from someone with cash, and with no injuries, I'd be happy.

I'm looking at having to get a new roof within 5 years. I'd rather someone else pay for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Oh, come on. I'm sure those two guys took a certain morbid glee in seeing the results of this cannonball misfiring. I mean, it's what they do... so long as nobody was hurt...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:21 pm 
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But they didn't fire it, they weren't even on set. It was Kari and the boys.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Adam Savage's Twitter Feed wrote:
Tweeps: thanks SO much for all the kind support. FYI, Mythbusters has NOT be suspended/cancelled. We're still in production. Happy holidays.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Micheal, I was simply making a reference to the comment I quoted in my sig because clearly, in this case, Kari got a big gun.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
The cannon is still in use by the United States military, we just changed the shape of the ball.


Objects called "cannons" are still in use by the military, but they have changed a hell of a lot more than the shape of the ball.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
The cannon is still in use by the United States military, we just changed the shape of the ball.
Objects called "cannons" are still in use by the military, but they have changed a hell of a lot more than the shape of the ball.
Not really ...

Mass of dense metal plus directed explosive charge results in a projectile flying out of a giant metal tube, which may or may not be rifled depending on size.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:01 am 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
The cannon is still in use by the United States military, we just changed the shape of the ball.
Objects called "cannons" are still in use by the military, but they have changed a hell of a lot more than the shape of the ball.
Not really ...

Mass of dense metal plus directed explosive charge results in a projectile flying out of a giant metal tube, which may or may not be rifled depending on size.


Yes, really - and since my original MOS happens to be 13A, Field Artillery Officer, I'm quite well versed on this, thanks.

Addition of rifling is a change in itself from the original "cannonball" especially since "balls" can't be rifled.

The addition of recoil-absorbtion systems was a revolutionary change.

Cannons became self-propelled and could be reliably emplaced at a known point on the ground. This involved a change to the cannon itself; in addition to the recoil system it needed to be able to have a stable aiming telescope regardless of being self-propelled in order to accurately lay the gun. This allowed for indirect lay, and indirect fire.

Various forms of self-loading auto-cannon were developed

Propellents of known qualities were developed, allowing much more accurate predictions of muzzle velocity and therefore more accurate indirect fire.

The contents of the "cannonball" changed; instead of just being iron shot we had canister, high explosive, white phosphorous, HC smoke canister, WP felt smoke rounds, illumination flares, APICM submunitions, DPICM submunitions, BBDPICM, rocket-assisted projectiles, of course chemical and nuclear rounds, and such gems as Copperhead and EXCALIBUR so the idea that the only thing that changed is the shape of the projectile is preposterous on the face of it.

Here's a lesson from the first day of Field Artillery OBC:

The 5 elements of accurate and predicted fire are:

1) accurate target location and size (size does matter)
2) accurate firing unit location
3) accurate weapon and ammunition information
4) accurate meteorological information (which really means environmental information, not merely the weather)
5) accurate computational procedures (or, accurate ballistic equation if you prefer)

At the time cannon "balls" were in use, none of those could be achieved. A cannon was an oversized musket. Enormous changes have taken place. Coro is right that they are still in use, but they bear about as much resemblance to a cannon launching a cannonball as the 747 does to the Wright Brother's Flyer. Saying the only change is the shape of the ball would be like claiming the only thing that changed about a 747 was the length of he fuselage.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:59 pm 
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...

Nope. Cannons are still fundamentally objects to that propel some mass of dense metal through a giant metal tube at some distant (as in not physically in or touching the cannon) spot.

That's what cannons are.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Addition of rifling is a change in itself from the original "cannonball" especially since "balls" can't be rifled.
Ummmm ...

Polygonal rifling works just fine for true balls, and then French were making cannons with polygonal rifling in the 18th Century. Hell, the Germans were rifling Muskets in the 16th Century.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:53 am 
Why do mythbusters do any sort of dangerous things near the neighborhood? Lucky nobody got hurt or killed. If some average Joe made the same mistake with such blatant disregard for safety they would probably be seeing jail time. [URL REDACTED]

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:27 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
"balls" can't be rifled.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Khross wrote:
...

Nope. Cannons are still fundamentally objects to that propel some mass of dense metal through a giant metal tube at some distant (as in not physically in or touching the cannon) spot.

That's what cannons are.


No one is disputing that. The comment was made by Coro that "the only thing that has changed is the shape of the ball." That's far from the truth. As I illustrated above, there have been far more changes than just the advent of bullet-shaped shells, although that is doubtless one of the most important. Even my airplane example illustrated that; while the Flyer and a 747 are enormously different, they are both still fundamentally fixed-wing aircraft.

How you could possibly think I was taking issue with the idea that a cannon is fundamentally an object that propels dense metal through a metal tube to a distant spot is beyond me.

Quote:
Ummmm ...

Polygonal rifling works just fine for true balls, and then French were making cannons with polygonal rifling in the 18th Century. Hell, the Germans were rifling Muskets in the 16th Century.


I think it was fairly obvious I was talking about traditional, or lands-and-grooves style rifling. Polygonal rifling can be done with balls, and "works just fine" in the sense that it's physically possible, but still can't overcome the aerodynamic deficiencies of a sphere for artillery purposes.

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