The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 10:55 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: How Doctors Die
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:17 am
Posts: 57
A really interesting read about how doctors use the health care system completely differently than most people

http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/

Quote:
by Ken Murray

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or surgical treatment. Medicare didn’t spend much on him.

It’s not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And they don’t die like the rest of us. What’s unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But they go gently.

Of course, doctors don’t want to die; they want to live. But they know enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and dying alone. They’ve talked about this with their families. They want to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them with CPR (that’s what happens if CPR is done right).

Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call “futile care” being performed on people. That’s when doctors bring the cutting edge of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words that vary only slightly, “Promise me if you find me like this that you’ll kill me.” They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions stamped “NO CODE” to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I have even seen it as a tattoo.

To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they’ll vent. “How can anyone do that to their family members?” they’ll ask. I suspect it’s one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it’s one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 years of my practice.

How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they wouldn’t want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is this: patients, doctors, and the system.

To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze of choices. They’re overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want “everything” done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. Sometimes, a family really means “do everything,” but often they just mean “do everything that’s reasonable.” The problem is that they may not know what’s reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For their part, doctors told to do “everything” will do it, whether it is reasonable or not.

The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are usually poor. I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot of bad decisions.

But of course it’s not just patients making these things happen. Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further treatment.

Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would discuss the issue in layman’s terms that portrayed the downsides clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care to another doctor or hospital.

Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This didn’t restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn’t heal. Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had occurred, she died.

It’s easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they’re asked, with little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble.

Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in the ICU. This was Jack’s worst nightmare. When I arrived at the hospital and took over Jack’s care, I spoke to his wife and to hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died two hours later.

Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack’s wishes had been spelled out explicitly, and he’d left the paperwork to prove it. But the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It’s no wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment.

But doctors still don’t over-treat themselves. They see the consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had “died peacefully at home, surrounded by his family.” Such stories are, thankfully, increasingly common.

Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain swelling. He moved in with me.

We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn’t had in decades. We went to Disneyland, his first time. We’d hang out at home. Torch was a sports nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day, he didn’t wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, for the one drug he was taking, was about $20.

Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just quantity. Don’t most of us? If there is a state of the art of end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my fellow doctors.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:47 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Well put story. The treatment in many cases does simply extend the agony.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How Doctors Die
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:47 am 
Offline
Doom Patrol
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:31 am
Posts: 1145
Location: The subtropics
This exact post was brought up on a doctor's forum that I frequent. Everyone who posted there agreed with limitation of treatment. One said he had "DNR" (Do Not Resuscitate) tattooed on his chest.

Medicine can do a lot, however knowing its limitations is important.

_________________
Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:53 am 
Offline
Irish Princess
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:55 am
Posts: 3679
Location: My Kingdom Come
This is EXACTLY how I feel after working in ICU for 3 years...

I joke about having DNR tattooed on my chest...we waste so much money that gives no benefit to the patient or the family with care at end of life.

So much better to accept the inevitable and enjoy your family and friends, instead of being gorked on drugs and poked and x-rayed every day till you pass..

_________________
Quote:
Do ever want to just grab someone and say...WTF is wrong with you?


Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow


Vivere Senza Rimpianti


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:55 am 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Doctors don't die, they just regenerate.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
FarSky wrote:
Doctors don't die, they just regenerate.

Well, Dr. Connors, perhaps.

But yes, this was a very nice way to highlight what I believe the real "problem" with Health Care is in this country: People refuse to accept that death happens, and think we have a right to buy our way out of it. That's not the case, no matter whose money it is. Steve Jobs didn't cheat death. You can't, either.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:40 am
Posts: 4281
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
FarSky wrote:
Doctors don't die, they just regenerate.

Well, Dr. Connors, perhaps.


Who? (Heh heh heh)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:19 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
Quality of life is an important consideration to be sure, but it's not a choice that anyone can make for another. I know no one here is saying that at this particular juncture, but I'm sure there are people who read that article and think in this fashion.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:22 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
This thread reminds me. My mother's funeral wishes are for us to use that money to take our families to Hawaii instead.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
No, we shouldn't be making the decision for them. But I think it's a valid consideration that we are part of the society that shapes and influences these decisions at a societal level, and that we (some more than others; Hollywood writers, for instance, probably have much more influence, subtle though it may be, than most) can influence these societal trends in our own small part.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:49 pm
Posts: 330
Darkroland wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
FarSky wrote:
Doctors don't die, they just regenerate.

Well, Dr. Connors, perhaps.


Who? (Heh heh heh)



I believe that is also the Lizard a Spiderman villain, although I think Farsky was going for a Dr. Who reference.

I agree I have seen people strung out on treatment for way longer than they should have been for no real purpose. I have had a lot of experience with hospice through my Grandfather, my Dad, my Mom and my Sister and I think it is really the way to go.

The only thing about a DNR is if they can actually fix me then do it, but if it will only prolong me for a short time then no way.

_________________
I met this six-year-old child, with this blank, pale, emotionless face and, the blackest eyes... the devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
I saw this a week or two ago, good read.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:33 pm 
Offline
Irish Princess
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:55 am
Posts: 3679
Location: My Kingdom Come
Rori...I agree that it's not a decision that other people can make for you. But, in fact, it usually is a decision that family makes for you because you are unable to. Too many people do not make it known to family what their wishes are. And, even then, if you are not coherent, family can still do what THEY want...you need to find someone that will carry out your wishes.

Killuas, therein lies most of the problems...no one can guarantee a "fix"...people want you to tell them "everything will be ok..if we just do this ect". And doctors do say things that end up not happening. But, medicine is not black and white and no one but God knows the outcome before it happens. That's why people in the medical field make the decisions they do when end of life gets near. Because we know the odds of things turning out and we choose not to play those odds. Do we impart that information to our patients? Some doctors do...and they are disliked for being honest. Most doctors and nurses try to give hope, if that seems to be what the family is seeking.

It always drives me crazy when people ask..."so, how long before I get better, will I get better". No one knows those answers.. I have sympathy and understanding, but there is a point when families need to face reality.

_________________
Quote:
Do ever want to just grab someone and say...WTF is wrong with you?


Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow


Vivere Senza Rimpianti


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:40 am
Posts: 4281
Killuas wrote:
Darkroland wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
FarSky wrote:
Doctors don't die, they just regenerate.

Well, Dr. Connors, perhaps.


Who? (Heh heh heh)
I believe that is also the Lizard a Spiderman villain, although I think Farsky was going for a Dr. Who reference.


/facepalm :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 253 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group