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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Since I'm not looking for active military engagement for it's own sake, and neither is practically anyone else, you're wildly underestimating my "demographic".

I haven't investigated your reasons, you'll note. All I've addressed is the trend in foreign relations from roughly 1898 to now, and your comfort with the situation as seen today.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:51 pm 
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The demographic that ignores blowback and world affairs before the 1970's is rather large - in DE's defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:34 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Since I'm not looking for active military engagement for it's own sake, and neither is practically anyone else, you're wildly underestimating my "demographic".

I haven't investigated your reasons, you'll note. All I've addressed is the trend in foreign relations from roughly 1898 to now, and your comfort with the situation as seen today.


You said: "...if active military engagements on diverse fronts is a favorable condition from his view,...". This indicates that you think I think active military engagement is good regardless of the reason. You seem to think that I think it's good either in and of itself, or as an end rather than a means. I don't. I think the ability to do so is a good means to have available towards our ends.

Furthermore, I do not need to agree with all, most, or even very much foreign policy since 1898 in order to think returning to a policy that existed prior to that time period is an even worse mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
You said: "...if active military engagements on diverse fronts is a favorable condition from his view,...". This indicates that you think I think active military engagement is good regardless of the reason. You seem to think that I think it's good either in and of itself, or as an end rather than a means. I don't. I think the ability to do so is a good means to have available towards our ends.

Furthermore, I do not need to agree with all, most, or even very much foreign policy since 1898 in order to think returning to a policy that existed prior to that time period is an even worse mistake.

And yet your stated preference is for multiple indefinitely active military engagements. That's not an indefinitely viable option.

You're certainly free to think as you wish.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:59 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
And yet your stated preference is for multiple indefinitely active military engagements. That's not an indefinitely viable option.


Except that it isn't my stated preference.

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You're certainly free to think as you wish.


Nothing like a little tautology to further the discussion.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Nothing like a little tautology to further the discussion.

That was actually just an acknowledgement of your free will.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:57 pm 
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We can be as isolationist as any quack job thinks appropriate, so long as we keep a military presence in some proper footballing nations like Germany. Our national team gains too much from youth trained in other countries (see capped national team players Timmy Chandler, Fabian Johnson, Jermaine Jones and David Yelldell - all born to American servicemen stationed in Germany). /mostlykidding


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:04 pm 
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I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:09 pm 
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The FDA routinely causes more harm by delaying drugs to market and increasing research costs than any harm they may prevent.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

Doing away with something at the federal level /= barring it at the state level.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:14 pm 
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The master stroke of the federal government was in convincing people how it was needed to perform all sorts of roles that they just can't live without.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.


He just wants to give regulating rights back to the states, where they should be.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:37 pm 
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As uber efficient as that sounds it is utterly retarded.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:09 pm 
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No more "retarded" than pinning your hopes on the Gov't protecting you from yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:16 pm 
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If you can't trust your big brother, who can you trust? I mean, he is always watching.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:08 pm 
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I'm not sure how the FDA is the government "protecting you from yourself."

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Seatbelt laws, bro!


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

Doing away with something at the federal level /= barring it at the state level.


The country having 50 different sets of food and drug regulations sounds like a good idea to you?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

Doing away with something at the federal level /= barring it at the state level.


The country having 50 different sets of food and drug regulations sounds like a good idea to you?


No. I'd rather there not be any regulations.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

Doing away with something at the federal level /= barring it at the state level.


The country having 50 different sets of food and drug regulations sounds like a good idea to you?


I echo Elmo's sentiments, but failing the ability to have zero regulations, 50 would be the next best number, as it would allow for the most competition, and thereby creating the most options for consumers to vote with their feet. If someone wants strict, heavy handed regulatory policy, they can simply go somewhere that meets those conditions. If someone wants less or no regulation, they can do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
I didn't know Paul wants to do away with the FDA. That terrifies me. People are retarded enough to buy "supplements" promising everything from weight loss to hair gain to curing cancer. If anything I feel that is the one branch of government that should be extended.

Doing away with something at the federal level /= barring it at the state level.


The country having 50 different sets of food and drug regulations sounds like a good idea to you?


You mean like Europe?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:45 pm 
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There's no reason people should have to vote with their feet to get access to safe food and drugs. The FDA is not like the Department of Education, which simply relies on the power to tax and spend to coerce compliance out of states on a matter than actually can be effectively regulated at the state level. Food and drugs can't; they cross state lines as a matter of course in their marketing, so not only are they explicitly withing the purview of interstate commerce, it would be impossible for the states to regulate them effectively since the states cannot make treaties or agreements with each other.

That said, food production that remains entirely within a state should be removed from Federal regulation if it isn't already. Farmer Joe should be able to sell watermelons at his personal stand with only the state to worry about.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:44 pm 
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umm Europe isn't a country?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:54 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
umm Europe isn't a country?


The combined GDP is similar to the United States, and they have the European Union. My point is that they function well having each country with its own regulatory laws in this area.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I'm not sure how the FDA is the government "protecting you from yourself."

You've pretty much answered the question yourself:
Diamondeye wrote:
There's no reason people should have to vote with their feet to get access to safe food and drugs.

If people don't feel the need to make sure what they put into their body is "safe", then they're looking to the Gov't to protect them from themselves. Sadly, that trust is misplaced, as the FDA doesn't do nearly the inspections that people assume they do. A prime example would be the recent listeria outbreak that led to 25 deaths, one miscarriage and 123 illnesses in 26 states; Jensen farms had never been inspected by the FDA in their 20 years of operations.

Diamondeye wrote:

The FDA is not like the Department of Education, which simply relies on the power to tax and spend to coerce compliance out of states on a matter than actually can be effectively regulated at the state level. Food and drugs can't; they cross state lines as a matter of course in their marketing, so not only are they explicitly withing the purview of interstate commerce, it would be impossible for the states to regulate them effectively since the states cannot make treaties or agreements with each other.

I'd assume that they wouldn't need to make treaties with the other states, as they could handle it like CCW, LPN/VN and RN licensure, for example.

Diamondeye wrote:
That said, food production that remains entirely within a state should be removed from Federal regulation if it isn't already. Farmer Joe should be able to sell watermelons at his personal stand with only the state to worry about.

I'd prefer that a professional that has a vested interest in his or her work being top notch be hired by the selling party, if they wish to show that their product has passed said professional's inspection. It is in this way the producer can be assured that the inspection is up to the standards they desire and the consumer can choose who to trust due to the inspector's documented reputation. The current system of haphazard regulation and inadequate, irregular and non-existent inspection is another example of security theater.

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