The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:39 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 142 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:49 am 
Offline
Has a plan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 1584
Will they be mad that it's ACORN again, or that FoxNews did it to them?


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549001,00.html

The community organizing group ACORN has fired two employees at its Baltimore office who were seen on hidden-camera video giving advice to a man posing as a pimp and a woman pretending to be a prostitute, as some legal experts raise questions over whether the employees broke the law.

In the video made public Thursday, two visitors to an ACORN office in Baltimore told staffers they needed assistance securing housing where the woman, a 20-year-old who called herself "Kenya," could continue to run her prostitution business.

An ACORN official told the couple how to falsify tax forms and seek illegal benefits for 13 "very young" girls from El Salvador that they said they wanted to import as prostitutes.

On Thursday night, the two employees were fired. But legal experts say their next stop could be a courtroom.

Though no tax forms were filed and the child prostitutes didn't exist, at least one ACORN official engaged in "numerous acts of criminal facilitation," said Judge Andrew Napolitano, FOX News senior judicial analyst.

• STORY: ACORN Officials Videotaped Telling 'Pimp,' 'Prostitute' How to Lie to IRS

"Criminal facilitation occurs whenever a person encourages, enables, entices, or explains to another how to commit crimes with the real purpose of helping that person to commit those crimes" — a violation the ACORN employee "committed in full," he said.

Napolitano said the worker could also face charges for criminal conspiracy, though each charge would require a heavier burden to prove: a so-called "act of furtherance" — a concrete move that makes the conspiracy active.

Napolitano outlined eight crimes the ACORN worker could potentially have committed that could bring a total sentence of 24 years in prison, including criminal facilitation and conspiracy to:

• (a) commit prostitution

• (b) operate a prostitution ring

• (c) file false documents with taxing and other government authorities

• (d) file false documents with a bank [also known as bank fraud]

Related StoriesACORN Officials Videotaped Telling 'Pimp,' 'Prostitute' How to Lie to IRS
• (e) violate numerous immigration laws

• (f) transport children into the U.S. for immoral purposes

• (g) transport women into the U.S. for immoral purposes [also known as violating the Mann Act]

• (h) impair the welfare of minors.

But not all legal experts agreed that ACORN had committed a crime. Trial attorney Lee Armstong said that the employee had engaged in "repulsive ... disgusting behavior," but nothing illegal occurred because the entire scenario was a sham.

"For aiding and abetting tax evasion, for aiding and abetting child prostitution ... you need the actual crime," said Armstrong, an attorney for Jones Day in New York. "That's what's missing here."

Armstrong said that the videotape appeared to show the ACORN official hatching a conspiracy, but no violation occurred because the 25-year-old filmmaker was only "pretending" to be a 25-year-old pimp.

"You need an actual agreement between two people to commit a crime. If one person is just faking it, you don't have a meeting of the minds, you don't have a conspiracy," Armstrong told FOX News. "How do you clap with one hand?"

ACORN — the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now — calls itself a network of families "working together for social justice and stronger communities," according to its Web site.

But the organization has been accused by conservatives and Republicans of committing fraud in voter registration drives around the country, and reaction to the videotape came swiftly after its release on Thursday.

"Taxpayers should be outraged that their money has gone to an organization that, in addition to facing charges of voter fraud and tax violations, is willing to facilitate prostitution," said Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.

"As this video confirms, ACORN continues to operate as a criminal enterprise."

In a selection from the video, ACORN officials treated the "pimp's" illegal schemes with nonchalance and offered to help further what they knew to be crimes.

"It's illegal. So I am not hearing this, I am not hearing this," said an ACORN staffer who identified herself as an accountant. "You talk too much. Don't give up no information you're not asked."

Because the group receives millions of dollars in federal grants, Napolitano said, "ACORN agents and employees are required by law to adhere to high standards of lawful and ethical behavior; standards akin to those required by law of federal employees."

ACORN suggested a plan of action for the purported pimp and prostitute, but did not fill out tax forms with any false information. But because the official sought a $50 fee for ACORN's services, a conspiracy charge could still be considered, a defense attorney told FOX News.

"Conspiracy requires an agreement to do something unlawful and an act in furtherance," said Mark Eiglarsh, a New York-based attorney. "There's an agreement to assist in creating the brothel, in tax evasion, a number of other offenses."

The act in furtherance, he suggested, could be the staffer's seeking payment for the work. "I think that a prosecutor ... would agree to go forward on a conspiracy count," he said.

Whether or not prosecutors charge any ACORN officials in Baltimore, the filmmaker himself could be in hot water.

A Maryland state statute requires consent from all parties whenever a conversation is taped, according to the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. Violations of the law are punishable by a maximum of five years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

But that statute does not apply to videotape recordings — only to phone calls or other electronic "communications," Napolitano argued — meaning the filmmaker is likely in the clear.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:44 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
I saw the video's the other day. This is the group Obama loves? Fits.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:34 pm
Posts: 324
Heh, and a new one comes out from the same people with Acorn employees advising them on how to lie on their housing loan.

These two videos alone should be enough to remove any credibility they have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm 
Offline
Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099
Manufactured by the angry right wing extremists.

_________________
The Dude abides.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:34 pm
Posts: 38
Heh, and a new one comes out with a Republican Assemblyman bragging about his sexual conquests with women other than his wife.

This video should be enough to remove any credibility Republicans have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:34 pm
Posts: 38
Heh, and a new one comes out with Army recruiters advising students on how to lie on their enlistment papers.

These two videos alone should be enough to remove any credibility they have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:04 pm 
Offline
Has a plan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 1584
I agree, so just like the Republican Assemblyman, ACORN should step down and stop all activities.

Just like the recruiters, ACORN should suspend all activities until they can certifiy ALL their employees are trained correctly.

Next?

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:06 pm 
Offline
Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099
Both sides of the aisle have issues with marital fidelity.

The army isn't a partisan group being given special responsibilities by the President.

_________________
The Dude abides.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:34 pm
Posts: 324
Telumehtar wrote:
Heh, and a new one comes out with a Republican Assemblyman bragging about his sexual conquests with women other than his wife.

This video should be enough to remove any credibility Republicans have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.


I see what you did there.

Care to show my where I may have indicated or said that it was alright for the republican state senator to not only cheat on his wife, but brag about it? No?

Oh that's right. You're just going into attack mode because... well.. I have no idea why. I find the actions of the senator to be deplorable, and am glad he resigned. If only other people with similar issues would have done the same.

If you can't remain faithful to your wife, I find it hard to believe you can stay faithful to your constituents.

That being said, if you're going to apply the actions of this senator to the entire republican party, you'll have to do the same for the democrats. Which means the credibility of both parties would be completely gone. And as I feel that's already the case, that's fine by me!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:33 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Hey maybe we have a replacement for Monte.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:40 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Elmarnieh wrote:
Hey maybe we have a replacement for Monte.


Nah. Telu can be rational at times. And I've seen well reasoned arguments from him too.

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:14 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
Aaaaaaannnnnd...

This just in: The Census Bureau cuts all ties to ACORN. News at 11.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:49 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Hasta la Vista *****.

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:09 pm 
Offline
Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099
Freakin finally.

_________________
The Dude abides.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:35 pm 
Offline
6,000 souls and counting

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 113
Location: In my own head.
So we are now holding entire organizations/groups responsible for the actions of a singular employee? This country would shut down overnight if this were to be universally applied!

Every organization has bad seeds, especially the bigger they get.

_________________
"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:37 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:41 pm 
Offline
6,000 souls and counting

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 113
Location: In my own head.
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?

_________________
"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:43 pm 
Offline
I am here, click me!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 3676
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?


Did you really just ask Elmo that question?

_________________
Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:45 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?



Many. Yes it does.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:47 pm 
Offline
Has a plan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 1584
Raltar wrote:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?


Did you really just ask Elmo that question?


It's ok, it's the FNG. ;)

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:48 pm 
Offline
6,000 souls and counting

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 113
Location: In my own head.
Raltar wrote:
Did you really just ask Elmo that question?


It's all good, I brought popcorn!

/willing to share

Elmarnieh wrote:
Many. Yes it does.


Honestly I can see your point, but I'm at a loss for an efficient replacement government to suggest to the American people.

_________________
"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:51 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:56 pm 
Offline
6,000 souls and counting

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 113
Location: In my own head.
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)

_________________
"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:57 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)


I beleive that would be encompassed by 1. above. The patriot act was power above the limits authorized by the Constitution.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:02 pm 
Offline
6,000 souls and counting

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:30 pm
Posts: 113
Location: In my own head.
Elmarnieh wrote:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)


I beleive that would be encompassed by 1. above. The patriot act was power above the limits authorized by the Constitution.


Excellent point, I'll concede that.

_________________
"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 142 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 318 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group