The Glade 4.0

Not really. You're responsible for what you say whether there's a standard or not. Yes, if there is no standard, you're not breaking some rule, but you're still responsible for what you say whether it's nice, rude, within some standard or without.



I don't disagree. But would you expect those who do not cuss to bother hanging around with their kids? Therein lies the problem. There's no standard, but the lack of consideration and respect for others is driving members away.



Come on, now. Nobody's suggesting that anyone refrain from telling someone something they don't want to hear. There's more than one way to say something. "I don't think that's a good idea" vs. "you're retarded".

Sas, we haven't gone out of our way to censor anything. Bad words filter is built into the board system and you have the option to turn it off. Not saying your sentiment is wrong, but that's the wrong thing to make a talking point.

The bad word filter was added because some people have work proxies that check for that.

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It has nothing to do with board rules. First of all, the local standard in a large part determines what's considered nice and what's considered rude, and second, if rudeness is acceptable, you are far less responsible for it if someone gets offended; a lot of the responsibility shifts to them for hanging out in a place where that level of rudeness was known to be tolerated.

If the main reason rudeness is the accepted standard in a particular place is the intractable behavior of one person, then they are largely responsible for the rudeness at large.



Yes, to a degree it is, and the reason here is so little consideration and respect for others is that one guy who had none of either was allowed to remain despite his world-class standing in that regard... for years on end.

There's also the issue that some people here are simply more sensitive than others, and there is no reason that the level o discourse needs to be at the level of the most sensitive people. It doesn't need to be at the level of the biggest assholes here either, but some people are simply notorious for getting offended.



Quite. And yet, in the thread in question, people were saying the former, and not the latter. There have been other threads as well where advice has been given without anyone saying "you're retarded" or where at least most people aren't acting like that as well; it's not as if the chemistry thread was some abberition of politeness.

The fact remains, however, that "you're responsible for your own actions" is, well, irrelevant. Obviously people are responsible for what they say, but they're also responsible for when they freak out at what someone else says. More importantly, people are responsible for when they choose to ignore reasoned argument in favor of turning things into a screaming match, and Monty was responsible for doing that with such incredible regularity that he caused it to become the board standard.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

This is my point, and I agree with your amendment.

Anyway, /shrug. I can't support anyone using Monty as an excuse or even to partially validate their behavior. I didn't put up with him blaming everyone else for attacking him as the motivation for his vitriol. Monty is old news. He is no longer responsible for any acceptable standard. Perhaps it's time for everyone to (individually) reassess what they consider acceptable to come out of their own mouths.

He is, but I don't think that changes the fundamental fact that he's the reason for the accepted standard of rudeness, in Hellfire at least. On the other hand, the entire board isn't Hellfire, so you do have a point in regard to people acting like that in other forums.

By the same token, people need to take a serious look at just why they get upset over what they hear. It's pretty easy to claim someone else is acting like an *** when they say something you don't want to hear, and it's a surefire way to get the entire thread onto the topic of how awful the Glade supposedly is and off of what the actual topic was.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm just irritated that the only person to comment on my hellfire post on libertarianism was Farsky, and him only to point out a rare example of reasonable discourse.

Obviously the only way to get anyone's comments around here is to be an *******. Civil discourse is boring.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Yeah, but I've wayyyyyy chilled out since then.

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The question isn't whether or not to 'leave'. There is rarely any drama over people leaving (yes, there are exceptions, but the vast majority of people who have disappeared did so silently).

As Arathain eluded to, what is the motivation to come here every day?

Honestly, I've lost mine. The things about this place that I used to value, and the people who's posts I valued reading are mostly gone. It's sad.

What's left ? A bunch of people who, after 10 years together, can't bother to treat each other with a modicum of respect and dignity.

Pretty sure that's the dictionary definition of "family".

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Did I mention i like em?

Probably like you too

After a quick read through the first page of the Hellfire forum, I'd like to point out that I saw exactly zero incidents of people treating each other shabbily.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

It's not animosity, per se. Like I said before, some things don't translate well in this medium. It's a whole lot closer to total indifference, as if I have removed them from the entirety of my caring, cut with a good bit of "don't let the door knob hit you in the *** on the way out," while they are still in the room.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I completely disagree with your assessment. I saw several instances of impolite, condescending, disrespectful, and "shabby" behavior.

But regardless, what point are you trying to make? That everything's fine and the only issues are hypersensitivity?

Sad.

To your first post: that's certainly an oversimplification, but in that particular forum I would have to say 'yes, to some degree". With that said, if that forum represents the worst we have to offer, and I don't see any (it's possible I could have missed a few, I'll admit) obviously lousy treatment of others in there, it serves to reason that the rest of the board would be markedly better on that front, save the occasional odd dust up that happens in any aspect of life. Speaking for myself only, I always offer a personal apology in PMs if, in retrospect, I feel that I have either been overly insensitive, or have come across as such unintentionallly (again, a flaw of the medium), and I do so with very rare exception. It's not nearly as bad as some of you seem to want to make it out to be. Infact, quite the opposite: this is a quality community that, in large part enjoys each other and treats each other well.

As to your second post, I suppose that's your opinion. I simply refuse to care for those who take their football and go home. I don't have room in mh life for that kind of silliness. I do, however, have open arms for those types should they ever decide to return.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Dramatically overstating things doesn't really help the discussion progress.

People here obviously still treat each other with a modicum of respect. They may not treat each other with the amount that you, personally, would like, but that doesn't mean you should imply that there isn't any, at all.

And even stepping past that, you've lumped the entirety of the remaining board into one, gigantic category. And while I can easily argue that *everyone* treats each other with a "modicum" of respect and dignity, the vast majority of the posters here treat each other with a great deal more than that.

I find it interesting that most people who seem to consider themselves the "gentle, respectful" posters lower themselves far below the standards they want to set on other people when there's a post they disagree with or feel like has crossed a boundary. Instead of quietly reporting it or sending a civil PM and moving on, we get the glade version of a pile-on dogfight, with each person seeming to try to top the previous poster in vitriol when attacking the one they perceive as having crossed the line. See this thread, for an example.

The people who are generally considered to be rude, crude, and socially unacceptable have maintained a fairly consistent level of discourse (that I wouldn't consider particularly low, at that) while many of the rest of you, who I would normally consider temperate and considerate posters have given in to quite vitriolic rants.

I don't feel like I've ever really fallen into any of the many cliques and "in" groups that made up the board, but it's always interesting to watch the dynamics.

As to why I keep visiting the board? There are a lot of interesting people and opinions here. I don't come to the board to be treated with kid gloves, I come to the board to see what other people think about something. And that part hasn't changed. Take the handgun thread- lots of good advice, not a lot of vitriol. The same could even be said of LK's Chem lab post, if we take the attitude displayed by LK herself out of the mixture. There are numerous other examples in the tech and entertainment forum. The majority of people and posts here are still quite good content wise, and I think the general level of "depression" indicated from this thread far outpaces the reality.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Fair enough...

I was just expressing my own personal feelings on the matter. Sorry if I offended anyone...

No offense taken, I just fairly strongly disagree with your assessment. Although, I'm quite sorry that you don't think there's a modicum of respect and dignity left in the way people treat each other here anymore.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I don't think anyone could really be offended by what you said; strictly speaking I think Neph is correct but I took what you said more in the spirit of hyperbole to make a point than something you meant literally.

That said, I don't think basic civility is really the problem outside Hellfire. It's really pretty rare that someone comes into an innocuous topic (outside Hellfire) and posts "you're a **** idiot" or something just outright rude. When someone does that, it's more likely to be a joke than anything else; we can go into food and find people telling each other they're "doing it wrong" and all kinds of other stuff and yet we never get a major flamefest over roast beef sandwiches or whatever because everyone knows it's all in fun.

I think the incivility usually is not the initial problem so much as the result of a combination of two factors:

On the one hand, people wanting to post things and only hear agreement or support or whatever. This isn't anyone's support group, and if you post on something you should be prepared to hear things you disagree with about it, even if it's something personally significant to you. Just because a topic is very important to you does not mean that people need to button up and let you rant with nothing but hugs, nor is it fair to hold back some of the facts, wait until someone disagrees then lecture them about how they don't know what they're talking about because they didn't know tidbit X that you forgot to mention.

By the same token, just because someone isn't taking your advice on their personal problem, isn't accepting your judgement of what's right and wrong in a given situation as gospel, or is not accepting your expertise as the final word on the best way to play a particular video game does not mean they are being stupid, or won't admit they're wrong, or whatever crushing personality fault you feel will win the argument for you.

In other words, there's a bad habit of seeing disagreement as incivility.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I've seen it far worse in days past. Its been a good while since we've had a thread thats been a serious muckup for us.

Still, It's a hard medium, easy to forget there are faces and lives behind the walls of text.

As for Fox and Kate, It's sad they've chosen depart, but it is a choice. Maybe a justified one. Maybe not. It's theres to make.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Hmmm so you are saying that when someone says something offensive, the best way to deal with it is to report it? Then let it go? Yet the posters who are offensive get to continue to be the way they are with no repercussion.

And you think that is the best way to handle things? Why is it wrong for someone that normally posts in a "gentle, respectful" manner to get angry over offensive posts? Yet it is ok for some to be angry every day?

And, to be truthful..I don't see anyone being attacted in this thread..did I miss that?

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

Something I forgot to metion in my previous post, but still very applicable. I have no idea why someone would leave the board or why we have perma bans when we have mute/block/ignore buttons. My ban exception would be if someone tries to bypass being muted/blocked/ignored by going trhough other people repeatedly trying to make contact with the person who has muted/blocked/ignored them.

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Gorse

I've often wondered the same thing Gorse. The argument always seems to be "well if someone quotes them I might have to read something of theirs"

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Two wrongs don't make a right. And from a moderating perspective, if you get angry instead of reporting it, responding calmly, and moving on, it becomes an intractable mess to do anything about.

If people actually used the report function, then the posters who were offensive might not continue with no repercussions. But as it is, the board seems to prefer a sort of vigilante style of moderation, and so no one ever submits reports. They either go off on the person they think transgressed, or get pissed off and leave. From my perspective, that's very frustrating to try to do anything about.

And as for the last part, read through it again. There are a number of veiled or not-so veiled attacks going on in this thread.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.