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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Dash wrote:
And was he being investigated before this attention?



According to the police report I cited, yes, the case was turned over to Major Crimes at the police department in question. There was an investigation in progress. I don't know that it was being well-done, but we also don't try people because the police did a shitty job on the case.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm 
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The accusations of racism against George Zimmerman are hilarious, but I have to say my favorite part of the whole story was when it hit the internet, and a bunch of crackers immediately assumed it was some young nigger trying to keep it real. Nevermind that Zimmerman was stalking a kid at night, is not an on-duty police officer, is not licensed security, and was even told by a police dispatcher not to follow the kid.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Yeah but some evidence makes it appear that it is just that. It will all come out in the end, but no one will care. My town has been down this road before at least twice. I know where it goes.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
told by a police dispatcher not to follow the kid.


Not as such. The disp said "We don't need you to do that" not "Don't follow him."

Its subtle, but different.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:17 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
The accusations of racism against George Zimmerman are hilarious, but I have to say my favorite part of the whole story was when it hit the internet, and a bunch of crackers immediately assumed it was some young nigger trying to keep it real. Nevermind that Zimmerman was stalking a kid at night, is not an on-duty police officer, is not licensed security, and was even told by a police dispatcher not to follow the kid.


It was exceedingly foolish of Zimmerman to follow Martin but he was not stalking him. Stalking either means the crime of stalking which he didn't commit under Florida law section 784.048, or the more colloquial meaning of following with the intent to attack. The latter, there is no evidence he was planning to do.

Zimmerman is guilty of two things: A) being an idiot and B) suspecting a black teenager of a crime. It's possible he's guilty of manslaughter, but it ain't looking good for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:20 am 
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Müs wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
told by a police dispatcher not to follow the kid.


Not as such. The disp said "We don't need you to do that" not "Don't follow him."

Its subtle, but different.


That's because Zimmerman was within his legal rights to follow Martin as long as he didn't commit some other crime in the process. Exercising his legal rights in this case was stupid, unnecessary, and set the conditions for the events that followed (not "caused the events that followed"), but he was still within them.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:23 am 
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I'd say this article sums up how I feel about this whole case and the national attention it has gained.

Bolding in spoilered article added by me. Also, Jesse Jackson is an idiot.

LINK

Spoiler:
(CNN) -- At first glance, the death of Trayvon Martin seemed to be a straightforward example of ugly, racial conflict resulting in the killing of an innocent black teenager by a white man, George Zimmerman. But now, as evidence continues to come forward, the facts seem much more complicated and the "obvious truth" premature.

At first, it was thought that Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, was the aggressor because he followed Martin, got into a physical scuffle with him and shot him. But then, some witnesses claim that Martin attacked Zimmerman first, and the initial police report said that Zimmerman had blood on his nose and the back of his head after the incident. However, surveillance video footage that surfaced from the police station is leading to questions about the extent of Zimmerman's injuries.
To make matters more complex, we found out that in the past several months, Martin was suspended from school three times, once for the possession of drug paraphernalia.
The Miami Herald reported that in the gated community in which Zimmerman patrolled, there were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one shooting in the past year. Neighbors of Zimmerman described him as being passionate about security and credit him with thwarting and cracking some crimes. It was also revealed that Zimmerman identified himself as a Hispanic and was a registered Democrat.


The facts are confounding and inconclusive. But the tendency in the first days by some, including Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and an angry chorus of followers, was to rush to judgment with little regard for fairness, due process, or respect for the terrible death of a young man. A mob mentality seems to be in the ascendancy. The New Black Panther Party offered a bounty for Zimmerman's capture. Jackson said that Martin's death shows how "blacks are under attack" and "targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business." Apart from the obvious incendiary nature of such comments, what in heaven's name could Jackson mean? Spike Lee fueled the flames by tweeting Zimmerman's home address, which turned out to be the wrong address and resulted in an older couple fleeing from their home and fearing for their lives after threats and crowds outside their residence. Lee, realizing his folly, has since apologized to the couple.

These actions and words illustrate a problem in dealing with Martin's death: Many people are not on an impartial hunt for justice but are exploiting this crisis for personal or political gain and claiming that it is representative of larger societal problems.

MSNBC political analyst and Democratic fundraiser Karen Finney blamed Martin's death on Republicans. She said, "[Republican politicians] reinforce and validate old stereotypes that associate the poor and welfare as criminal behavior with African-Americans and people of color, calling us lazy, undeserving recipients of public assistance. In the case of Trayvon, those festering stereotypes had lethal consequences."
Martin's own mother, Sybrina Fulton, filed applications for trademarks on two of the popular phrases used at rallies for Martin, "I Am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon." Democrats politicized the event with a hearing on Capitol Hill in which Martin's parents testified. Later, U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois, wore a hoodie on the House floor. It's clear that some of the people raising the most noise are trying to make this less about the horrible death of a young man and more about claims of racial resentment that may or may not exist.
The loudest voices should be particularly careful not to rush to conclusions. Remember the Duke lacrosse case, in which members of the team were accused of a gang rape. The public rushed to judgment long before the young men were eventually acquitted.
Zimmerman may or may not be guilty; there may or may not be racial motivations. We do not know yet. In the absence of complete evidence, inflammatory comments and belligerent reactions will not aid the search for justice. An angry crowd should not be in charge.

Lastly, why is there so much selective outrage on the part of so many? The leading cause of death for black male teenagers is homicide, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Of all the black homicide victims, about 93% are killed by other black people. In 2011, nearly 85% of all people murdered in Philadelphia were black. Where are the marches and protests for these victims? Is it justice people seek or are they looking and even hoping for signs of white racism so they can exploit it?

In his Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Martin Luther King Jr. wrote, "Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust." While we wait and respect due process of law, we should do our part to uplift human personality. We can do so by giving both Martin and Zimmerman a just weighing of the evidence, both in the court of law and public opinion. Let us not assume the worst of anybody but be guided by the facts.


People have been to quick to jump on one side or the other without the benefit of fact, only their emotions clouding their judgement. This has become a ridiculous national circus in what was nothing more than a small town shooting incident.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:44 pm 
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This article brings up, indirectly, a very interesting point.

Blacks, on average, are not as well off socioeconomically or educationally as whites.

Blacks are more likely to be convicted of crimes and are more likely to be incarcerated than whites. We're frequently told that this is because the justice system is "racist".

However, crime tends to go with socioeconomic status. Poor people live in areas with higher crime rates, are more likely to be victimized by crime, and are more likely to commit it. Crime rates in poor areas, especially urban poor areas where blacks often live, are certainly not driven by large numbers of external criminals coming into the area to commit crimes. This is corroborated by the murder rate: 93% of blacks murdered are murdered by other blacks.

Yet we're told that it's racist to say that blacks are convicted more often because they commit crimes more often; that blacks are only convicted more often because of racism in the justice system.

This might make sense if not for the socioeconomic difference (and in socioeconomic difference I include the fact that poor whites are more likely to live in non-urban areas which will have lower crime because they are more spread out and have fewer people).

Essentially, we're asked to believe one of several ridiculous things to explain this:

1) That socioeconomic status does not have anything to do with crime rates. This makes little sense when we compare crime rates in poor areas to rich ones.
2) That blacks actually commit less crime than whites at any given socioeconomic status. Essentially, if different conviction rates for each race are not explained by socioeconomic status across the racial group (i.e. not by greater poverty and worse education among blacks) but rather by a "racist" justice system, then that must mean that poor blacks commit significantly fewer crimes than poor whites, which would result in a similar conviction rate for both races if the justice system weren't "racist." Essentially, either whites are poorer at handling poverty or blacks commit fewer crimes just because they are black.
3) That it's racist if blacks are convicted at a higher rate even if they commit crime at a higher rate and even if the reason for them crime at a higher rate is greater average poverty and poorer education. Essentially, what we're being told is that due to the average situation of blacks, it's racist to convict individual blacks of the crimes they commit, or at least racist to convict enough of them to create a differential in conviction rates.

Basically, we are told we must believe either the totally absurd. we muct accept a racist assertion of black superiority is true, or we must accept that measures of racial averages that are worse for blacks are caused by racism, regardless of the relationship between them. Each must be looked at individually, and if the averages are not quite similar, racism must be to blame and suggesting otherwise is, itself, racist.

Those arguing for racism as the reason for black disadvantage have crossed the line into arguing blacks are actually superior.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:47 pm 
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I have heard that, as a person who carries a weapon whether concealed or not, it is a good idea to also carry some sort of voice recorder to record any exchange should it be necessary to draw one's weapon. (Elmo I think told me this)

This would have cleared up quite a lot of conjecture about this whole case if Zimmerman had done this.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:57 am 
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Foamy wrote:
I have heard that, as a person who carries a weapon whether concealed or not, it is a good idea to also carry some sort of voice recorder to record any exchange should it be necessary to draw one's weapon. (Elmo I think told me this)

This would have cleared up quite a lot of conjecture about this whole case if Zimmerman had done this.


Good luck trying to switch on a voice recorder if you're ever in a situation where you have to draw your weapon. In a high-stress situation you want to keep your tasks down to a minimum. Especially those that require fine motor control. For example, I never carry anything in the same pocket as my spare magazine when in civilian clothes because if I ever need it, the last thing I need is to be trying to untangle it from my keys or get it out from under my phone.

Legally, yeah, it's a great idea. Practically, it probably isn't all that great. There's also a fair amount of luck in getting it to actually pick up clearly what's being said.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Speaking of voice recordings, looks like it was not Zimmerman crying for help:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0481.story

Quote:
Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
Trayvon Martin's family says unarmed teen begged for his life. Experts say it's not George Zimmerman's voice.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:22 am 
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Dash wrote:
Speaking of voice recordings, looks like it was not Zimmerman crying for help:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0481.story

Quote:
Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
Trayvon Martin's family says unarmed teen begged for his life. Experts say it's not George Zimmerman's voice.


Ok, but this individual is outside the investigation. It's worth noting, but... who is this guy and why's he taking the time to do this? Also:

Quote:
"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.


That's a pretty big hole IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:12 am 
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In addition to that, we have this:

Image

Image

Note the apparent swelling in Zimmerman's nose relative to the picture of what he apparently looks like.

Image

This is a closeup of part of the video from Zimmerman being taken to the police station. In the running video it's very hard to see any sign of injury, but in the closeup it does appear he had a gash in his head.

Also, not related to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence but speaking to press handling of the incident:

NBC likes to alter 911 calls

Quote:
Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:23 am 
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I never ceases to amaze me how foolish and myopic the posts can get on subjects like this. How is it any of you can even consider a trial for Zimmerman after all the media bullshit surrounding this? What part of the 'fair and impartial jury' did we sell for infotainment?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:56 am 
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Khross wrote:
I never ceases to amaze me how foolish and myopic the posts can get on subjects like this. How is it any of you can even consider a trial for Zimmerman after all the media bullshit surrounding this? What part of the 'fair and impartial jury' did we sell for infotainment?


Please demonstrate how the selected jury is not fair and impartial. Oh, that's right, you can't. Because there is no jury.

IF there is determined to be enough evidence to make an arrest, THEN they'll try to find a fair and impartial jury. IF they can't, THEN you might have a point. You're implying that they shouldn't even bother trying, which is just silly.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:30 am 
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Khross wrote:
What part of the 'fair and impartial jury' did we sell for infotainment?

The "fair and impartial" part.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:37 am 
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For the record, in case anyone cares...

What offends me most about this is EXACTLY what offends me about the Mumia Abu Jamal case.

The only difference here is that the facts about the Martin-Zimmerman case are not out there just yet, though people have already firmly taken one side over the other.

I take no side on this because I don't know the facts yet. This is ignorance at it's absolute best. People calling for an arrest even though it has seemingly been determined that enough evidence is not present to charge Zimmerman with anything.

It seems to me that the masses want to latch onto a "cause" and run with it despite not knowing fact. It saddens me that so many are able to adopt the mob mentality and make decisions on guilt or innocence based on media spin, political hype and race baiting (thank you Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson)

Should it come to pass, I doubt Zimmerman would be able to get a fair trial. He's already been found guilty in the eyes of the public.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:45 am 
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There's plenty of people out there that would vote to acquit, but probably as many of them would vote to acquit over outrage at the attempted railroading as over the facts. It works out perfectly for the pro-racism side; if he's ever tried and found guilty they can claim he was a racist; if he's tried and acquitted, they can claim it's evidence of racism in the justice system.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Image

Better picture of the higher resolution shot of his head

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:12 pm 
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It's also interesting to note that in the original ABC News release of the video that still is from, his head was obscured by a grey screen placed across the bottom of the image that said "ABC News Exclusive" on it... only it was a lot higher up the screen than it needed to be to contain print of the size they used, and thus conveniently obscured detail on his head.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Also CNN is recanting their analysis of a tape where they thought they said Zimmerman called Martin a racial slur, and that he may have just been colorfully commenting on the unseasonable weather instead.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:27 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/nbc-news-apologiz ... 43826.html


NBC admits the 911 call they broadcast was edited to make it sound more racist, and then the NY Times quotes that edit, even after NBC admits to "making a mistake".

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Awesome video


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:09 pm 
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That man is a hero

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:54 am 
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Sad that the race angle makes this case an absolute circus. He's right that it is the main reason it's got attention.

The list of things the media presented as "facts" that turned out to be wrong all go against Zimmerman too.

They said Zimmerman was white, 240 pounds, called Martin a coon, did not have injuries to his head, said he made 40+ calls to police in a year when really it was over 7+ years. They showed Zimmerman's mugshot and Martin as a 13 year old. It's crazy.

All that said, Zimmerman still seems to be clearly in the wrong here. But we'll see.

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