The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:13 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Philosophy and Science
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:39 am
Posts: 452
So... let's see... maybe 5 pages ago in the Trayvon Martin thread we went off on some tangent about philosophy and science and the relationship between them. Well, I just happened across two articles today that I found very interesting. They might provide an interesting counter-point to the view that "philosophy is useless mental masturbation" that many of you have. Figured I'd start a new thread too while I'm at it.

Why does Stephen Hawking think science has overtaken philosophy? - From The Guardian. Pretty short.

The Guardian wrote:
Why does Stephen Hawking think science has overtaken philosophy?Stephen Hawking uses his new book, The Grand Design, to admonish philosophers for failing to keep up. My question is: is this really about keeping up? Hawking believes that since science has so far outstripped philosophy it is time for the thinkers to leave the field to the guys with the protractors and pocket calculators, but – another question – who let Stephen Hawking choose the rules of the game?

A quote from The West Wing comes to mind. Speechwriter Sam Seaborn argues that mankind should go to Mars because "it's next": "we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill and we saw fire; and we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the west, and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration and this is what's next."

What is so disturbing about Sam's vision is his effortless linkage of the opening of the west (the "manifest destiny" of the pioneers, an adventure fuelled by the religious rhetoric of the Methodist "Great Awakening") to human spirit and on to space travel.

Here, on a single flight-path, Sam connects religion, human nature and science. Life is a soaring vector, and that vector is "progress". This is the exact same notion of progress offered by Hawking. Of course, Hawking has no use for religion, but so evangelical about the notion of "progress" is he that it might as well be a religion.

How does Hawking define progress? Pretty much the same way it is defined in a quote attributed to Carlos "The Jackal": "You know you're getting somewhere when you're stepping over bodies." In Hawking's case, the bodies are those of philosophers, cast aside by science's relentless march.

To Hawking, vector is everything. Cosmology is about energy, as biology is about evolution, and Hawking demands that philosophy reflect this crazed restlessness. He criticises philosophers for failing to understand the maths that underpins his sciences, forgetting that it was a stream of philosophers who defined mathematics and, whether Zeno (in the fifth century BC) or Tarski (in the 20th century), also saw the multiple paradoxes that a reliance on numbers can lead to, as well as noting the theoretical impossibility of ever defining "number" from inside a mathematical framework. Why does Hawking love energy so much? Because, like Sam Seaborn and S Club 7, his idea of energy reflects a deeper wish to get moving and reach the stars. But he is also devoted to energy because this is simply how modern scientists look at things. Since Einstein, "energy equals matter" and Hawking lacks the imagination to think outside this box.

What does the universe look like to these men? A recent suggestion, emerging from work done on the Poincare Conjecture, is that the universe is an endlessly moving conveyor belt whose path might be modelled as a three dimensional coating on a four dimensional sphere. That's it. The universe is a slightly funky Möbius strip. All that time with their calculators and the best these guys come up with is something they first heard about in kindergarten!

If the universe is a four dimensional sphere, is this a metaphor? If so, is it possible that we need a new theory of metaphor? Hawking criticises philosophy for playing trivial word games and one sympathises: it must seem awfully trivial to a guy with no theoretical imagination. Or perhaps we should we go another way and allow that a four dimensional object is real. The question, then, is why should we prefer this object over, say, Leibniz's Monads? For Leibniz, a Monad is part of a fundamental multiplicity and each one, within its heart, carries all the information of the universe in a single, stable form.

There it is: an alternative view of matter that does not hinge on an undefined notion of "progress", from a man who could out-fox Isaac Newton on a good day and died three hundred years ago. Leibniz shows us why philosophy survives: because it is not stupid, though it may seem that way if one only glances at it, as one speeds past on a road to nowhere.


Hawking contra Philosophy - From Philosphy Now. A lot longer and it can be a bit harder to read, but it has some very interesting stuff in there. Here's a piece that stuck out for me.

Philosophy Now wrote:
However there are just too many impressive examples in the history of science – from Galileo’s marvellous thought-experiment showing that Aristotle must have been wrong about falling bodies to a number of crucial quantum-related results – for anyone to argue convincingly that results obtained in the ‘laboratory of the mind’ can only impress philosophers keen to defend their patch. Indeed, there is a sense in which the scientific enterprise stands or falls on the validity of counterfactual-conditional reasoning, that is to say, reasoning from what necessarily would be the case should certain conditions obtain or certain hypotheses hold.


I'm not saying that I agree with both of these articles completely... in fact there is a lot I don't like about them. But I still thought they present an interesting point of view.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
If Hawking is right about philosophy vs. science, the blame lies not with the philosophers.

It lies with the scientists, for casting philosophy aside and ignoring it in the past fifty years or so.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
I see your Hawking and raise you two Feynmans.




_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
All of Feynman's videos are awesome.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 81 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group