The Glade 4.0

This is a good analogy (even though it's not always true - projects and reports and such are typically also homework, and they are NOT practice). Let's expand on it. We'll focus on the sports practice.

Most teams have mandatory practice. Obviously, results in the real games are what matter, but the coach still forces them to attend practice. Failure to do so will have repercusions. You don't get out of batting practice because you're leading the league in average or home runs. You still need to practice.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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FTFY. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go review a few thousand pages of contracts and prepare an issues list for an upcoming status call with the project lenders. But hey, it's all worth it because in just five more years I'll have my student loans paid off and finally attain a net worth of $0. Thank god I studied hard and did all my homework!

projects & reports can still be practice--writing, exposition, not to mention project management and application of existing skills.

Its a different sort of practice, but practice in application is still practice.

They are practice in the same sense an actual major leage "At Bat" is batting practice. Yes, it's gives you practice, but it counts toward your stats in tomorrow's newspaper.

Everything you do in school is essentially "practice." But your grades matter.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Not everybody can be John Lasseter.

(Which makes me sad.)

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Projects and reports, while done outside the classroom, are not what is being discussed by "homework." You are well aware of that, as is everyone else.

Athletics is a wonderful example of how to approach the topic in an appropriate manner. They have competitions. There is a drive to be better. A promising young athlete who is crushing the competition will find his or her way into an arena with tougher competition. If little Timmy can't hit a lay-up after a few weeks, he's off the team unless he's a monster on rebounds. The team doesn't sit there and work on lay-ups until Timmy gets it right.

Unfortunately, schools don't work that way. Even mediocre students find themselves as big fish in small ponds, because homework is designed for the dumb, but not quite special-ed kids. There is much that the academic community could learn from youth sports, and several people in the scientific community in particular have lamented that there are no talent scouts who roam the country looking for brilliant young minds who excel in science.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I wonder if anyone has ever attempted a purely competitive style approach to school performance at the youth level.

Sports is an imperfect analogy , as even at the upper eschelons nothing can be perfected. Changing competition creates a new variable every single day. A linebacker must study film and learn to disect a new offense every single week accounting for new reads and different skill sets. A hiter faces different pitchers with different arsenals and different approaches every day. The lynchpin being that being successful only 30% of the time places you at the top of your peer group. The work remains challenging every day, and that keeps the player motivated.

As I said, homework is not inherently bad, but it must remain challenging or you are teaching the wrong lesson.

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Tangu Matraa

No, that is what a paycheck does.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

1. 18 in Pa without parental consent. So yes - was not there by choice and its kidnapping.
2. This amounts to "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again" - I am compelled under threat of force against me and my parents to attend so I have no responsibility or obligation to follow anyone's requirements. Pay me and sure, let me agree to it and sure - force me and never.
3. *HOSE*
4 **** class - it got me far in real life. Knowing how to do things, being able to demonstrate I can do things when the time counts - and knowing I know how to do both of those. **** busywork - if you want to make it in life the end goal is to avoid busywork because those people are lower than you on the totem pole because all they can do is busywork.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

1) Elmo, the crazy muppet antics aren't helping. They're just causing people to dismiss you as a crazy muppet.

2) Just because you think Elmo's a crazy muppet who likes to shoot federal judges doesn't invalidate his point. To whit, Elmo's parents weren't the ones in school. He was. Elmo's parents weren't the ones society was trying to impart knowledge and learning to. He was. His opinion that he was kidnapped and held hostage against his will is actually more valid than the rest of you. He's being honest about his perception of public school, for one thing. He isn't saying something other than what he feels out of some perceived need to make peace with the establishment and set a good example for today's children. It doesn't really matter that he could have dropped out after he turned sixteen, or eighteen, or whatever age, because by that point he'd already been kept in that building, and others just like it, for ten to thirteen years. He may as well get a worthless piece of paper out of the ordeal.

Children literally are held in schools against their will. They're not allowed to be someplace else during the day, "for their own good." Furthermore, there's no standards by which they're judged before receiving a diploma. I know we try to tell our children that you have to work for your diploma, but the truth is, you really do get it just for showing up. You don't have to learn anything. You don't have to demonstrate any proficiency. You show up for four years, don't get into any serious fights, don't bring a knife or a gun to school, and don't get kicked out for drug possession - that's it. That's all you have to do for a high school diploma. It was true when I was in school, and it's doubly so today after No Child Left Behind.

Now here's where it gets interesting. Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for, even though they're a lot dumber than we want to hope. They know they don't have to do **** to get their diploma. They also know they don't have a choice, that they have to go. It's a real problem. They're not learning anything, because they resent being in the building. All they are is a distraction to the other students, who are also there against their will, but haven't begun to resent it, yet.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Oh, please don't take my post as an endorsement of homework. 99% of my homework was nonsensical busy work that I was able to finish in class.

All I'm saying is that if you don't do your required work, expect bad grades on those assignments. If you don't like the curriculum, take it up with the teacher and administrator. But do your work in the meantime, or accept your bad grades.

1) Parents.... Still not kidnapping, bro. You didn't get your parents consent, and you're in the charge of your parents. If they wanted you out and the school came and collected you, you might have a point.
2) No, you're there under your parents direction and nobody's forcing you to do anything. Clearly. That's why you got zeros on your assignments.
3) So let me get this straight. You're given a choice, you make it, and don't like the consequences? Sorry, no sympathy.
4) Lower than you? I started out joking about you being smug.... Anyway, good luck in your attempt to always have someone around to do the menial stuff for you. That's hard to pull off and can build animosity real fast.

1. You defended your position by saying I had choice and thus its not kidnapping - I pointed out that wasn't the case. You then change your argument - moving the goalpost. Knock it off.
2. You are basing this off the fallacy you used in 1. Knock it off.
3. So if I kidnap you and give tell you do X activity or Y will happen and you refuse and I do Y - it makes that situation acceptable?
4. Lower than me on the totem pole - you work in a hierarchical system right? You get paid more than others and have more flexibility because your services are more in demand than others right? You have proven your competency and therefore have been rewarded for it...this **** shouldn't surprise you because this is the real world which you've supposedly been living in the last few years.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Don't mind Elmo. He's still po'd we wont let him own nuclear weapons. Any system of gov't or leadership shy of universal anarchy he feels is an oppression of his personal freedoms.

If cannotrefute= true then reply=insult.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

It was wrong for the school to embarrass her like this.

1) From the original post:


It's not kidnapping. Look it up. All you're doing is making emotional arguments to avoid responsibility for your own choices.
2) No, I'm not. It's not kidnapping. You were given an assignment. You CHOSE not to do it - take responsibility for your actions.
3) Since we're not talking about kidnapping, how is this relevant? But assuming I am not kidnapped, this this is merely a choice I'm given several times a day. And yes, I take responsibility for my choices.
4) Reality or not, I try not to be smug about it.

Yup... and this is why asians will rule the world one day

Keep in mind that you're dealing with someone fundamentally unable to deal with the idea that he cannot dictate to the entire rest of the world how it should run.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

We are talking about kidnapping Arathain. If you want to believe it is something else then you and DE are free to deceive yourself into whatever rainbows and ponies world you want to believe exists.

I look at the truth. Force is used against someone to confine them in an area they do not wish to be when they have infringed on no one's rights. If that type of action is moral to you then I hope moral actions befall you and your family on a regular basis.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

So, is it kidnapping when your parents make you go to the grocery store with them? Go to Grandma's? Going to school is no different. Your argument is... weird.



****, I just kidnapped my son this morning and forced him to go to daycare, where I'm sure he was forced to take a nap, eat lunch, go outside and play, use the bathroom, wash his hands (he HATES that), etc.

Oh my God, I'm a terrible person!!!

I think the word you're looking for is "retarded".

Clearly, I also kidnapped my one-year-old when I took her away from the cabinet beneath the sink where household cleansers are kept, and confined her to the (much safer) living room.

It's ok Arathain, now you can hang out in the Authoritarian Club with all us other horrible "kidnappers" and "authoritarians".



Thankfully, the idiocy of the first two sentences does not grant the silly curse of the third sentence any actual power. That's an interesting RPG idea though - magic powered by anarcholibertarian wanktardism.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

This was kinda my issue. I felt like school consisted of 5% of the time actually learning, and 95% of the time mindlessly proving that "yes, I know this stuff."