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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:28 am 
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I'm not sure why you guys think there would be a lower price point. Yes, they could feasibly have a lower price point, but they haven't done so yet with the 360. Why would they suddenly start?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:31 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
I want to trade and resell my downloaded games, too. But yeah, that infographic otherwise represents a paradigm I'm okay with. I'm not sure whether Microsoft can convince the publishers to go with a two-tiered pricing structure and whatnot, though, so I fear that even if we communicate this message to Microsoft, we may have **** our chance to have the left column, now.


I believe the problem is how Microsoft communicated the message, in addition to their previous failures. Games for Windows is universally despised (not without reason) and they have made no PC gaming advancements in quite a while. Their most recent attempt to capture the PC market is to create yet another locked-down platform appstore in Windows 8 (another product that forces it's users to conform to Microsoft's vision instead of providing them a platform to use as they'd like). Thanks to their essentially universal failure of their microsoft-controlled gaming services on PC, I can understand why people did not want the same experience to come to console.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:40 am 
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DFK! wrote:
I'm not sure why you guys think there would be a lower price point. Yes, they could feasibly have a lower price point, but they haven't done so yet with the 360. Why would they suddenly start?

Oh, I don't expect them to suddenly start offering games at $50 when stores offer them at $60. But theoretically, you'd have massive discounts in the form of awesome, Steam-esque sales.

Again...theoretically.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:42 am 
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Khross wrote:
That's pretty much the case. It's an amazing joke, now, and my fury at the Sony-driven and Sony-generated media backlash is that consoles now stagnate for another cycle while Microsoft plans an exit strategy and we go back to a Sony only world.

It wasn't just Sony. You can walk into any Gamestop in America and ask there employees about the Xbox One and get a lengthy monologue of how awful it is. The talking points are suspiciously similar from store to store too, almost as if someone gave it to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:00 am 
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Gamestop's Sony bias is well documented and known. It was not until late in this generation that GameStop was FORCED by the market to devote more than 25% of any given Storefront to Microsoft products.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:38 am 
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FarSky wrote:
I'm totally cool with not trading/selling downloaded games. Part and parcel of the quicker, easier delivery (and theoretically lower price point).

But, given the option to not be allowed to trade/sell digitally distributed content, and to be allowed to do so, I prefer the former, particularly if the architecture is designed around giving the developer a cut of the secondary sale in the process, so as not to undermine the assumption that I may/will resell and thus undercut future profit from them in the process. That's why disc based console games are pricier than their PC counterparts.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:20 am 
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Losing the shared library is a huge blow, IMO, to the Xbox. Very disappointing. I would have rather kept the 24 hour checkins.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:27 am 
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Lenas wrote:
Losing the shared library is a huge blow, IMO, to the Xbox. Very disappointing. I would have rather kept the 24 hour checkins.
Like I said, this backpedal by Microsoft ONLY benefits Sony. Microsoft loses on all fronts; and we the gamer lose on all fronts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:27 am 
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Kills the possibility of online rentals too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Today I've been trying to figure out if I view Microsoft more favorably now for listening to its consumers, or less favorably for caving to peer pressure, since they touted the controversial systems as being ideological as much as technical.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:39 pm 
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http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

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First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library. Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. There was never any catch to that, they didn't have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone. When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to.

When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game. We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it. One thing we knew is that we wanted the experience to be seamless for both the person sharing and the family member benefiting. There weren't many models of this system already in the wild other than Sony's horrendous game sharing implementation, but it was clear their approach (if one could call it that) was not the way to go. Developers complained about the lost sales and gamers complained about overbearing DRM that punished those who didn't share that implemented by publishers to quell gamers from taking advantage of a poorly thought out system. We wanted our family sharing plan to be something that was talked about and genuinely enjoyed by the masses as a way of inciting gamers to try new games.


Unconfirmed, so take it with a grain of salt.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:13 pm 
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What a whiny *****. It's not technically difficult to implement something like family sharing, and it is certainly not philosophically predicated on any sort of always on/monitored/surveilled client/server interaction. I expect this sort of behavior from 8-year-olds on the playground.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:39 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
What a whiny *****. It's not technically difficult to implement something like family sharing, and it is certainly not philosophically predicated on any sort of always on/monitored/surveilled client/server interaction. I expect this sort of behavior from 8-year-olds on the playground.


Yep. that "family sharing" plan was much more what I would expect. It's not "10 people can play games from a collaborative library", it's "You can play a time-locked ad-riddled version of a game that one of the 10 people own if someone actively shares it, which likely means they can't play it at the same time as well."


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:43 pm 
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I don't know where you got the impression that they'd be "ad-riddled." Just because they ask you to buy the game doesn't make it a giant advertisement. Hearing about the sharing time limitations definitely makes me feel less bad about losing it though.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I don't know where you got the impression that they'd be "ad-riddled." Just because they ask you to buy the game doesn't make it a giant advertisement. Hearing about the sharing time limitations definitely makes me feel less bad about losing it though.


Driving me to the marketplace every 45 minutes is effectively an advertisement to buy the game I've just been playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I don't know where you got the impression that they'd be "ad-riddled." Just because they ask you to buy the game doesn't make it a giant advertisement. Hearing about the sharing time limitations definitely makes me feel less bad about losing it though.


I think it was both this line:
"When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."
and this line:
"It's the console gaming equivalent to spotify and pandora"
which are both ad-supported services.

Still, even if there wasn't another ad besides dropping you in the marketplace at the end of your "demo time", that's still really disappointing, when the initial impression was that you would simply be able to share games digitally the same way you do physically now.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:10 pm 
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I agree it's disappointing, but the original assumptions of ours were probably out of line as well. It's crazy to think that MS would offer us the ability to stream entire games from the cloud that someone else purchased all without time limit or calls to buy it yourself. If I bought a single player game and shared it with nine of you, and you could all play it unlimitedly and to completion, game developers would go out of business en masse.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:57 pm 
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There is definitely a lot of whining going on...


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I agree it's disappointing, but the original assumptions of ours were probably out of line as well. It's crazy to think that MS would offer us the ability to stream entire games from the cloud that someone else purchased all without time limit or calls to buy it yourself. If I bought a single player game and shared it with nine of you, and you could all play it unlimitedly and to completion, game developers would go out of business en masse.


This is true. I'm adding my +1 to this.

Ah well, maybe now without the DRM stuff, we can move forward and look towards the future :)

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:18 pm 
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I was really hoping the Xbox One stuff was going to push console gaming into a disc-less future(at least take some steps forward)...but assholes on the internet prevented any kind of forward progress. At least they will have all games for digital download on day one(to be fair, the PS3 does this for some games now).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Yes, it's a travesty that the forward progress that came with a free lifetime subscription to abuse and invasion was stopped by those assholes on the Internet.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:28 am 
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shuyung wrote:
Yes, it's a travesty that the forward progress that came with a free lifetime subscription to abuse and invasion was stopped by those assholes on the Internet.


+1

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:41 am 
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DFK! wrote:
shuyung wrote:
Yes, it's a travesty that the forward progress that came with a free lifetime subscription to abuse and invasion was stopped by those assholes on the Internet.


+1


Looks like the PA guys are on board.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:17 pm 
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You should read the news posts, then, Darkroland. Go two weeks back. Tycho's got a lot to say, and most of it was optimistic/interested in what Microsoft was trying to do.

He nails it, by the way.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:57 am 
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Heh. The more I read about what they were actually going to do, the more Im glad it died. 'Sharing Library' my ***. Whats the difference between that and a live demo? Oh, we get to leverage your (limited, 10 friends) as a free social fillip for our advertising, but otherwise, **** you?

Microsoft can suck a dick


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