The Glade 4.0

Well, the DEA took responsibility, did explain how this happened, did accept that it is horrifically terrible it could happen, and has taken measures to prevent this from happening again.

If the DEA was trying to escape blame or responsibility through the settlement, I'd agree with you. Basically, this sounds like fairly reasonable people got together at a table and said "yes, you need to be paid. let's negotiate how much, no need for a court."

Yeah, I think that 3-4 days locked up without any human contact would, rightfully, lead me to assume I was going to die in that cell.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Maybe, maybe not. This sort of thing is unusual, and most people would not resign themselves to death that easily. In fact, had he done so, that alone might have killed him.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Anyone that takes the time to carve "sorry mom" into their arm with a shard of glass has resigned themselves to death.

Maaaaaaaybe, just maybe you should read the article.

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I didn't realize you were a psychoogist and qualified to make definitive assessments.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I did. The contents of the article do not change the fact that it is not the place of scientists to determine what is cruel and unusual. This is no different than the overstepping of bounds with the doomsday clock.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Absolutely. I'll show you my psychological credentials that back up my statement when you show me yours for your statement:



Also, I'll point out that this is yet another instance of you preferring to target the source of the statement rather than the content of the statement. To assist, what about carving "Sorry Mom" into his arm, and the statement from his lawyer that he had, in fact, "given up and accepted death" that leads you to believe he may not have been resolved to death?

Of course "resigned to death" isn't a clinical diagnosis, and there is no DSM standards for evaluating whether someone is or is not.

Each and every one of us better be "resigned to death", 'cause there ain't no other way off this ride.

Oh, and screw psychologists and their opinions. I've not met a one that didn't have more problems than solutions rattling' between their ear. It's torture each and every time they share their opinions. The humanity!

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In time, this too shall pass.

The only thing worse is psychology students (active or former) who feel that they have some insight into the "human condition", due to their 3 psychology classes, that they must share with you.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I don't know, "experts" on web forums are pretty much right up there too.

You know what? That's a fair criticism. However, as it happens we're visiting family and one of my wife's friends came over and she happens to BE a psychologist and we started talking about this, briefly, so I asked her. I could also point to several books on the subject, such as LTC Grossman's books on combat and survival psychology. However, you didn't have any way to know who I was talking to, so that was unfair of me to use. So, I'll revise it. On what basis at all do you know that he had resigned himself to death, and at what point did that happen? He was only in there 4 days. PResumably he did not decide he was going to die as soon as he was locked up.



Given your propensity for criticism my statements on the basis that I'm in law enforcement, you don't get privilege to complain that I'm criticizing the source of the statement. Doing that is part and parcel of glade discussion in general, much like complaining about "bare assertion" basically means nothing around here unless almost every single statement is criticized; this is not a rigorous forum.

That said, a lawyer's job is to represent his client's best interests, and their public statements, not subject to courtroom rules cannot be trusted as reliable; essentially it's their job to predjudice their case in favor of their client. As for carving into his arm, "sorry mom" is rather mysterious. Something to the effect of "goodbye" would seem more resigned. What did he have to apologize for?

Either way, 4.5 million is not out of line at all based on what actually happened. His state of resignation, or complaints about solitary confinement, or calculations of wages don't really change that. The settlement was not out of line in either direction with what was inflicted on him. Those people who trouble themselves to actually calculate the dollar value of a human life don't normally exceed $7 million in their calculations; in view of that 4.5 million is hardly unreasonable - seeing as he's, you know, not dead. Had he actually died, a settlement with his family that was significantly in excess of $7 million would have been out of line.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Sure. But anyone who does this still opens themselves up to justifiable criticism.



Right, so... attacking the source. The problem here, is that the source your attacking is the only one qualified to make the assessment. In other words, you are dismissing the student in question's claim that he was, in fact, resigned to death, and placing weight on "your wife's friend who happens to be a psychologist". There's a whole lot of /facepalm there.



His part in hurting his mother?

Absent an agreed upon definition of 'resigned to death' (since there is no clinical definition) arguing whether or not he was is ridiculous. Agree on the standard before you argue about if the standard was met.

I suppose.

I just have a hard time imagining that a person 'resigned to death' would be drinking his own urine in desperation to try to survive. Not that I've got a degree in psychology or anything.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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You know, we keep using "drank urine" as a metric for how desperate to survive the kid was, but I don't think we have the empirical evidence to make such a claim. I propose a study. Arathain, Vindicarre, Diamondeye, Hopwin, Riov, Taskiss, Aizle, Talya, and I all hit the streets with clipboards. We poll people by having Talya squat over them and see how many takers we get.

Now, I'm not proposing we're going to find it's a 50/50 split, but I'm betting there's a significant enough minority of the human race willing to drink urine as the "thing to do" on a Friday night that we can rule it out as an effective measuring stick for being desperate to live.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Ewwww.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

What are you getting all bashful for? You're not the one drinking it. Hell, you don't even have to watch and record data.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

There's websites you can go to if you want to watch women pee in people's mouths. Hellfire is bad, but come on man, we don't have to drag THAT **** in here.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I am busy that weekend.

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The existence of some websites is kind of my point.

You can't use drinking urine to propose that, "Oh, he was so desperate to survive that he had to resort to something nasty and unpleasant!" or, "Oh, he was in such despair that he resorted to something nasty and unpleasant!" In the grand scheme of things, it's just not one of the more bizarre things that people do.

Now, trying to carve a goodbye message to his mother would be a good indicator. There's a significant minority of people who cut themselves, but they don't leave messages to their parents when they do it. In fact, having once dated a cutter, they try not to let people see it at all.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Five days is a long time in this scenario. I'm sure he went through a huge range of emotions and mental states over the course of those 5 days. I could easily see something like

Day 2: No one came to see me this morning? Oh cool, I'm hungry and thirsty but I'm happy hanging out here instead of getting grilled on drug distribution charges. Maybe I'll masturbate to pass the time...
Day 3: Hungry and thirsty, but enjoying the mild hallucinations and euphoria that comes along with the sleep deprivation and dehydration.
Day 4: Start getting really concerned no one is ever going to come get you, desperate for your life, hallucinations are getting worse, drink your own urine to try to wet your lips and quench your thirst just a little.
Day 5: Mental breakdown to the point you can't form coherent thoughts, feel insane/delirious, give up on living and just want it to end.

And then I can see someone reading a news story about it later and being all like: "What? He says he thought he was going to die but he still had time to sit around masturbating? That doesn't sound so bad to me." Anyway... yeah, a lot can happen over the course of 5 days.

Are you sure it wasn't just an excuse to talk about piss drinking? Can we just stick to the butt sex?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."