The Glade 4.0

Coro, drinking urine is one thing, but ask yourself this... do you think they left a cup with him? I don't think he was sipping urine out of a champagne glass.

My how quickly conversations begin to devolve around here. :/

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

You guys do know the general survival metric without water is only like 3 days, right?

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

That metric is based on wilderness conditions and exertion. I also don't see that it matters; he didn't die. He was compensated in proportion to the harm he suffered.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

DE....the article said that he cried and screamed...you can lose a lot of water through over-use of your vocal cords very quickly. Crying too.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Yes, you can lose some water that way, but nowhere near what you would lose moving around and sweating in the wilderness situations that those estimates envision. In hot environments while working, up to 2 gallons of water can be needed to replenish lost liquids. I am not going to buy that one can cry or scream the equivalent of that.

Either way, he got 4.5 million for what happened to him. That is a fair compensation for the negligence they displayed and the harm they put him to. I explained why already, based on dollar values customarily used when calculating loss of human life versus other forms of harm. While I generally object to attempts to quantify harm in that way, it's sometimes unavoidable and I see no reason to quibble with the rationale used.

No one has yet given any reason whatsoever why 4.5 million is not a fair settlement for nearly getting killed. I suspect that no matter the amount, someone would take issue with it just to make sure they got their outrage out there.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Hey DE, what's the DEA's annual budget?

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What has this got to do with anything?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

What happened to this kid was a damned shame. What was compensated was an amount commensurate with having experienced something that was a damn shame.

It's done, move along. There's nothing to be gained by rehashing this further.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Except for discussion around whether we agree with whether it was commensurate. Which I don't.

Personally, I'd feel it was morally acceptable had the agents involved also all been charged and convicted of kidnapping.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

again we have mulitple issues.

1)What is his discomfort/near death experience/whatever you want to call it worth. The only person who can know that is him, and since he took the offer, I guess it was sufficient.

2) What should be done to discipline those responsible.

3) what should the agency and perhaps law enforcement as a whole, do differently to ensure this doesn't happen.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

It wasn't kidnapping. The fact that they lost track of him at the jail doesn't mean the arrest was unlawful in the first place.

Furthermore, you can't claim it's not commeasurate if they aren't convicted. You can maybe make a case for a trial, but a trial is about a criminal act and punishment for it. Compensation for a harmed person is a civil matter.

In any case, demanding that they be convicted is essentially saying that you want them to be presumed guilty. First, your charge is inappropriate, and second, assuming another charge can be found (dereliction of duty is a good possibility) it doesn't matter how strong the evidence appears now, it hasn't been submitted to a jury. That jury could very well find that some or all of the people involved were innocent of wrongdoing. I find it unlikely that no one would be guilty, but it's possible.

Demands that people be convicted of a crime are always inappropriate. Demanding a trial is all that can legitimately be asked for. It applied to George Zimmerman and it applies to everyone else.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Good point, what's the average annual salary of a DEA agent?

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Why don't you look it up? It shouldn't be hard to find out.

Do your own research and make your point.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Since you are the government expert, LEO I figured you might have some information but whatever.



What does that mean? How many people progress to GS-13, like it is a given or are those like police sergeants/lieutenants??

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That does not include keeping a running total of average salaries for every federal agency in my head. That's rather silly.



What does that mean? How many people progress to GS-13, like it is a given or are those like police sergeants/lieutenants??[/quote]

GS-13 is most likely the top pay grade for non-supervisory agents, which is standard for agencies whose officers are designated as "special agents". Despite the awkward wording, the progression to GS-13 is probably not a sudden jump that happens at the end of 4 years; rather 4 years is how long it takes for a GS-7 starting agent to get to GS-13. A GS-9 agent probably gets there a year sooner.

For example, A GS-7 agent becomes GS-9 after 1 year, GS-11 after 2, GS-12 after 3 and GS-13 after 4, and then enters "Step increases" based on longevity if they do not promote into supervisory ranks. That is a speculative progression, but based on how the agency I work for progresses people, although we are not "special" agents and top out at GS-12 for non-supervisors. I'm not quite sure what the actual difference is, though, since we can technically enforce any federal law anywhere in the country at any time, just like a special agent. I can only assume it's because in practice we spend a lot of time laying on the ground in the woods in the middle of the night fending off mosquitoes and waiting for aliens to show up on the infrared, rather than plowing through bank records or whatever.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

So 4.5M is essentially the annual salary for ~45 agents?

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I don't know, is it? It rather appears that way.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Let's face it. You guys were talking about piss drinking well before I posted in this thread.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

The kid thought it was commensurate, he agreed with the settlement. Since he is now the expert at having damn things happen, I defer to his opinion.

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In time, this too shall pass.

This.


I wouldn't. 5 days without water is plenty enough time to die. Drinking his piss very probably saved his life, and only barely from the sounds of it.


I'm having a hard time buying that this was 100% accidental. I can understand how they might not have realized he was in custody to begin with, but not noticing that there's a screaming man in the solitary wing for 5 days? To quote the article:

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

I can see why you would think that, but there is no actual reason to think it was intentional. This is more likely a case of "yeah, yeah, I'll get to it later" and no one bothering to check on him, forgetting about it because they were busy with something else, and almost certainly started when someone forgot to put him into an inmate tracking system. This is probably not done by DEA agents, but by some sort of corrections official.

This does not excuse the negligence at all; when our station was jammed up with over 800 aliens earlier this year (for reasons I won't divulge, but suffice to say jobs were lost for refusing to take aliens from us when we were at 5 times capacity and had nowhere to physically put them anymore) we did not have anyone not get a drink, or even get lost in the system that day. People DO sometimes get forgotten, but in our case they are in mass cells so if one alien is forgotten, or starts experiencing a medical problem or something, the other ones get us. There also is a water fountain in every cell, and we have an orange water cooler in each one as well.

This brings up the question of what fool designed a cell with no water or toilet in it, but that can hardly be blamed on the agents either.

In any case, it is very hard indeed to believe they just suddenly decided to leave this particular guy in a cell for 4 days. Why him? Just out of the blue "hey, I feel like starving someone to death today!"? No. Maybe they wanted to break him to give them information? More plausible, but if so why doesn't this happen with anyone else? And why leave him in there long enough to nearly kill him? If he'd died, that would hardly have elicited information from him.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Except as I understand it he should be been taken to an arraignment or let go on day two, right?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Yes, but that really doesn't say anything either; it's just more evidence that they didn't do what they were supposed to do.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

It's evidence they didn't do what they were supposed to do. It doesn't speak to intent but it speaks to neglect. Im not saying it isn't It just boggles my mind if it is just sheer incompetence on multiple levels as I understand how prison handling is supposed to work.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"