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Raell

Post subject: Question?

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:30 pm

Solo Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:32 pm
Posts: 3874
Location: Clarkston, Mi

This has been bugging me.

My daughter is a cheer leader. She has been doing this since she was six. We go to a lot of youth football games as a result. This is her second year of high school, her second year on the varsity cheer team. I like going to the football games.

Stay with me.

This year, her high school is going to do a 'Veterans' night at one of the games. Vets and their family get in the game for free and they are going to give out a voucher for a hot dog or something. All well and good, free anything is fantastic and being a fat bastard, free food is even better. But here is the kicker. During half time, all the Vets who got in for free are going to be dragged down on the field for some reason. So the gathered folks can say thank you or something.

Now, when my wife told me about this. I was excited at first. Because, yay free ****. Then she told me about half time. I said, "I will go to the game but I don't want to go down on the field. That is just silly."

My wife got upset with me. Like, I am an ******* or something. So I said fine, I will just skip the game. Once again, I am the *******.

Am I an *******? Am I missing something? I don't **** get it. I didn't join the army to get paraded around like a **** monkey, dancing for change. Want to give me a free hot dog, great but I won't be your half time show. I am sure other guys will be happy to stand down there. I'd rather not.

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Raell Kromwell

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Müs

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:10 am

I got nothin.

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!

The people that did not serve want to appreciate the people that did. You represent those that returned, those that served, and those that did not return in one form or another. You may be looking at this from the back side of it. Its not for you and your brothers. Its for those that did not serve to appreciate you and your brothers. So they can give voice to appreciate the sacrifices you and others like you made.

They don't want to parade you. They want to honor you.

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Micheal

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:31 am

Bull Moose

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express

Mus said it well, I don't need to add much to that.

Just, well this. Make your daughter proud of you and allow yourself to be honored. She deserves to know that other people think you did a fine and noble thing.

It also lets the fine young men in your town know that you've been well trained in the use of a firearm.

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Raell

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:47 am

Solo Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:32 pm
Posts: 3874
Location: Clarkston, Mi

Ok, so I am being an *******. Thanks.

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Raell Kromwell

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Micheal

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:32 am

Bull Moose

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express

We all embrace our inner anus on occasion.

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Shelgeyr

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:33 am

Sensitive Ponytail Guy

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:18 pm
Posts: 2765

Me, personally - I'm with you, Raell.
I'd pay for my own ticket & hot dog and not tell anyone I ever wore the uniform, just to avoid the social awkwardness I'd feel at being 'honored'. I've a co-worker who 'thanks me for my service' on Veterans' Day and it always makes me uncomfortable.

With wife & kid involved, however ... I know I'd lose, so I'd make an effort to just take it with as little grousing as I could manage.

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Elmarnieh

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:52 am

adorabalicious

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094

I would feel the same way man.

You're not being an ******* for not serving to do what other people want because they want to feel better.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

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Screeling

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:34 am

Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099

Service and charity are deeply personal for some people, myself included. Some people feel participating in the cause itself is the reward and want nothing else from it, including recognition.

While it would be good of you to recognize the perspective Mus offered, others also need to allow for you to be a willing participant in that recognition. You are not the asterisks here.

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Vindicarre

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:51 am

Noli me calcare

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747

Personally, if my daughter had strong feelings about it, I'd walk my *** down there with a smile. Otherwise, I'd stay in my seat and clap with everyone else ( you did your time at parade rest, no need to needlessly add more).

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Kaffis Mark V

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:08 am

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412

Yup. Don't pass on the game entirely; either go and suffer the public show of gratitude if you feel it's important to your family, or pay for your ticket and hot dog like any other game and enjoy your daughter's performance.

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Arathain Kelvar

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:41 am

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716

Raell wrote:

My wife got upset with me. Like, I am an ******* or something. So I said fine, I will just skip the game. Once again, I am the *******.

Am I an *******? Am I missing something? I don't **** get it. I didn't join the army to get paraded around like a **** monkey, dancing for change. Want to give me a free hot dog, great but I won't be your half time show. I am sure other guys will be happy to stand down there. I'd rather not.

Nothing to do with you. And **** the people in the stands. Go out on the field and let your daughter cheer for you.

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Corolinth

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:16 pm

Manchurian Mod

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866

My grandfather never talked to me about World War II. I knew he was a Navy pilot and my grandmother was a nurse. I knew one of his brothers was on the Bataan death march. That's all I knew about it until five years after he died. I never knew he was dive bombing German submarines off the coast of of the Carolina's a full year before Pearl Harbor. I never knew every single one of his brothers was combat infantry. I never knew some of them received medals. I never understood why my grandmother, who kept pictures of George W. Bush in her dining room, told me, "Don't you dare join the military." It seemed odd and out of place given her very obvious support of then-president Bush. It was only when we were cleaning out my grandfather's desk trying to find his death certificate, that it all came together.

Some people don't want to be honored with parades and shown off to the public. Some people just want to go home and live a normal life. Your wife and daughter may never understand that, but you might have to try to explain it anyway.

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Müs

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:43 pm

I got nothin.

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!

Arathain Kelvar wrote:

Raell wrote:

Nothing to do with you. And **** the people in the stands. Go out on the field and let your daughter cheer for you.

This

Also, you're not an *******. Well, maybe you are, but not in this.

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Sam

Post subject: Re:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:13 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:08 am
Posts: 906

Raell wrote:

Ok, so I am being an *******. Thanks.

It will appear that way, the more you make it an issue. I'm not a father, but I am a long time husband. Your best bet is to march in and tell your wife and daughter you will gladly do this (with a smile on your face). Then march your *** to the game and do the little thing which probably will go quicker than you realize. Smile, be a nice guy, and get points with the daughter and wife as a good dad/father.

These are the types of things that will pay in the long run. Or, if you screw it up........and be an ******* and say no, it will be remembered forever in the woman's elephant type memory bank. Just sayin'.....Women don't forget anything! :twisted:

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Diamondeye

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:33 pm

Commence Primary Ignition

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center

Unless there's a specific reason why it really bothers you, I'd just go to it and put up with it.

I don't really care for stuff like this either, but quick things like a halftime show really are good, even if you personally don't care for the attention. In reality, they represent a much-improved attitude towards veterans from the Viet Nam era, so we should appreciate the public's caring about us just as they appreciate us.

Now, if it were one of these all-day veteran's appreciation things that's ONLY about veterans and includes a lot of fawning and pampering (it seems like these occur in small communities with few veterans and nothing better to do anyhow) then yeah, I'd put my foot down. It's one thing when people want to just express appreciation; it's quite another when they want to put you up on a pedestal. A quick thing at a halftime show will be over in 10 minutes most likely.

The thing that really bugs me is veteran's appreciation on Memorial Day. Veteran's Day is for veterans; Memorial Day is for those who have passed. I don't think it should be diverted onto still-living veterans.

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FarSky

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:31 pm

Near Ground

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Diamondeye wrote:

The thing that really bugs me is veteran's appreciation on Memorial Day. Veteran's Day is for veterans; Memorial Day is for those who have passed. I don't think it should be diverted onto still-living veterans.

There's a fair amount of ***** about this every year where I work. When we do Memorial Day and Veterans Day spots/social posts/etc., there are two camps: this side and the other (Veterans Day for the living, Memorial Day only for the dead).

The bottom line is that in this ridiculously politicized culture, no one wants to be the person who can be construed as disrespecting veterans. So we essentially have two Veterans Days per year.

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TheRiov

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:35 am

Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH

You could try not to view it as personal; that you're representing a huge group of people that they wish to express their gratitude to, not necessarily you personally. It may be easier to stomach if you view it that way.

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Talya

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:40 am

Oberon's Playground

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams

Diamondeye wrote:

Just to confuse matters, for us Canadians on the board - we have a single combined holiday for remembering our soldiers who fought for us, whether they survived or not. Rememberance Day falls on November 11th. (Armistice day for the end of WWI.)

Wikipedia wrote:

Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day or Armistice Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries since the end of World War I to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognised as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of hostilities of World War I on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month," in accordance with the Armistice, signed by representatives of Germany and the Entente between 5:12 and 5:20 that morning. ("At the 11th hour" refers to the passing of the 11th hour, or 11:00 am.) World War I officially ended with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles on 28 June 1919.
...
The federal department of Veterans Affairs Canada states that the date is of "remembrance for the men and women who have served, and continue to serve our country during times of war, conflict and peace"; specifically, the First and Second World Wars, the Korean War, and all conflicts since then in which members of the Canadian Forces have participated. The department runs a program called Canada Remembers with the mission of helping young and new Canadians, most of whom have never known war, "come to understand and appreciate what those who have served Canada in times of war, armed conflict and peace stand for and what they have sacrificed for their country."

This makes it very easy to get the USA's Memorial Day and Veteran's Day confused.

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Diamondeye

Post subject: Re: Question?

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:10 pm

Commence Primary Ignition

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center

FarSky wrote:

Diamondeye wrote:

I don't know any veteran that would feel disrespected by the attention being paid to the deceased. Unfortunately, it's really hard for us to come right out and say "it's just not appropriate and it makes us feel a little guilty" without people either thinking we're being overly sensitive or thinking it's some PTSD thing. I don't really see that there's anything "overly politicized" about not disrespecting veterans either.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

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Diamondeye

Post subject: Re:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:14 pm

Commence Primary Ignition

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center

TheRiov wrote:

This is why I draw a distinction between brief thank-you acknowledgements and some of the more fawning things that go on. I also occasionally find that some of the "wounded warrior" stuff goes a bit far. It's not that wounded veterans don't often need help, but not all wounds were created equal, and simply showering a seriously wounded person with praise and hero-worship doesn't help them much. It might even be psychologically harmful in some cases.

Occasionally I also get this feeling of "well excuse the **** out of me for not getting sufficiently shot up" but it seems I get this feeling mostly when dealing with veterans, vet organizations, the VA, or the actual military, rather than the general public, mainly because these people should know better.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

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Corolinth

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:25 pm

Manchurian Mod

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866

PTSD is a stone cold *****. I know plenty of veterans who, more than anything, want their **** lives back.

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Diamondeye

Post subject: Re:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:04 pm

Commence Primary Ignition

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center

Corolinth wrote:

PTSD is a stone cold *****. I know plenty of veterans who, more than anything, want their **** lives back.

Yes. That also doesn't mean that PTSD informs everything we do and say, whether we have it or not.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

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Wwen

Post subject: Re:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:55 pm

Peanut Gallery

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Bat Country

Raell wrote:

Ok, so I am being an *******. Thanks.

No you're not, **** that noise. I didn't serve for anyone's desire to fawn over service-people.

Aside from that, simply serving doesn't make you a hero and I don't appreciate the depreciation real heroism gets at these sort of things. Most heroes are dead, and just wearing a uniform doesn't make you a hero. Some vets eat it up a bit too much (I suspect they're not ones that got into real ****) and I just find it disgraceful.

YMMV

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Midgen

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:36 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:08 am
Posts: 6465
Location: The Lab

I served 20 years, and i'm inclined to avoid the social awkwardness of these types of events.

That said, for me, I have no family that would care one whit whether I participated or not, so I'd either not go, or buy a ticket and a hot dog and not tell anyone.

If I had family, especially kids who might not understand my discomfort, and who wanted to show their pride in their fathers service, I would be inclined to participate for that reason, and that reason only.

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Raell

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:25 am

Solo Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:32 pm
Posts: 3874
Location: Clarkston, Mi

Thanks guys.

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Raell Kromwell

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