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 Post subject: The campus rape crisis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Is manufactured from incidents like this

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Rolling Stone magazine has apologized for trusting the subject of rape article after a University of Virginia fraternity revealed they did not have a party the night of alleged rape and no 'lifeguard' is a member.

The horrifying first person account in the article, saw a current junior identified as 'Jackie', claim she was assaulted by a seven Phi Kappa Psi brothers after accepting an invitation to a 'date night' function at the house.

The damning article accused the school of repeatedly hushing up sexual assault victims in order to protect their reputation.

But now the magazine has been forced to issue an apology as it admitted there were discrepancies in Jackie's account about the incident at the Charlottesville, Virginia school and that they have now 'come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced.'

Officials close to the fraternity said that no members of the fraternity were employed at the university’s Aquatic Fitness Center during that time frame — a detail Jackie provided in her account to Rolling Stone and in interviews with The Washington Post — and that no member of the house matches the description detailed in the Rolling Stone account.

'Her friends and rape activists on campus strongly supported Jackie's account. She had spoken of the assault in campus forums.

'We reached out to both the local branch and the national leadership of the fraternity where Jackie said she was attacked.

'They responded that they couldn't confirm or deny her story but had concerns about the evidence.

'In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced.

'We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story.'

The fall-out from the report on one of University of Virginia's most illustrious fraternities was extremely damaging and University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations.

In the piece published last month it was claimed that Jackie decided not to press charges when the incident first happened, but she felt she needed to go public with her story after hearing from two other women who were gang raped at the fraternity, which counts President Woodrow Wilson as one of their distinguished alumni.


CNN is describing on TV far more discrepancies than those noted above.

There's a problem in how campus sexual assaults are handled all right. It's that "victims" are simply taken at their word. Cue damage control from the rape hysteria industry.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:16 am 
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It'd be a shame if this stupidity resulted in college and university no longer being the sexual free-for-all it currently is. I believe this is a conspiracy by the religious right to keep people from sleeping around!

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Edit: The conspiracy comment was said tongue-in-cheek. I strongly suspect this rape-culture crap is being instigated by some unholy Disciples of Dworkin or something similar. Their goals conflict with those of the religious right, many of whom would support maintaining their god-given right to knock up the women they own however and whenever they see fit. Have to breed up a new batch of Christian Soldiers!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:20 am 
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At a certain point men who will be punished for not committing a crime will lose any punitive reason for not doing so.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:40 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
At a certain point men who will be punished for not committing a crime will lose any punitive reason for not doing so.


You're suggesting that men will begin raping women because, why not - some men get convicted whether they do or not?

Seriously?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:14 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
At a certain point men who will be punished for not committing a crime will lose any punitive reason for not doing so.


You're suggesting that men will begin raping women because, why not - some men get convicted whether they do or not?

Seriously?


I think he's talking about a specific subset of men that are restrained from fear of legal consequences, and he may be right about that subset. However, it's a very small subset - generally speaking, the sort of person that is willing to rape someone just figures out how to avoid detection, and rapidly gets very good at it.

That's actually part of the problem with the entire "Let's pretend men don't understand or don't care about consent, and lecture them on what consent is and why they should care about it" approach. Most men - much like most women - want to have sex with a partner that is interested and enthusiastic, and do not want to think of themselves as rapists or abusers and therefore won't attack anyone.

The approach of constantly talks about what is and isn't consent has a lot of the same problems of the anti-bullying programs we discussed in another thread - they likely teach rapists how to avoid detection by giving them a more in-depth understanding of how they can make a non-consensual encounter appear consensual.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:51 am 
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Yes that subset, yes it is small, but it will incentivize more rapes.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:59 am 
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Quote:
- A survey of 6,159 college students enrolled at 32 institutions in the U.S. found the following: (ref 4)

· 54% of the women surveyed had been the victims of some form of sexual abuse; more than one in four college-aged women had been the victim of rape or attempted rape;

· 57% of the assaults occurred on dates;

· 73% of the assailants and 55% of the victims had used alcohol or other drugs prior to the assault;

· 25% of the men surveyed admitted some degree of sexually aggressive behavior;

· 42% of the victims told no one.

- In a survey of high school students, 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. (ref 5)

- A survey of 11-to-14 year-olds found:(ref 5)

· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl;

· 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience;

· 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married;

· 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months.

- In a survey of male college students:

· 35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it (ref 6,7).

· One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7)

- In another survey of college males: (ref 8)

· 43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse.

· 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex.

- Women with a history of rape or attempted rape during adolescence were almost twice as likely to experience a sexual assault during college, and were three times as likely to be victimized by a husband. (ref 9)

- Sexual assault is reported by 33% to 46% of women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands.(ref 10)



If you or someone you know has been hurt:

Campus Advocacy Network

Resources for Survivors of Sexual Assault and Abuse

After an Assault


Sources:

1. Dupre, A.R., Hampton, H.L., Morrison, H., and Meeks, G.R. Sexual Assault. Obstetrical and Gynecological Survey. 1993;48:640-648.

2. National Crime Center and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington, VA; 1992:1-16

3. National Victim Center, and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington, VA; 1992:1-16.

4. Koss M.P., Hidden rape: sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of students in higher education. In: Burgess A.W., ed Rape and Sexual Assault. New York, NY: Garland Publishing: 1988;2:3-25.

5. White, Jacqueline W. and John A. Humphrey. "Young People's Attitudes Toward Acquaintance Rape." Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden crime." John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

6. Koss M.P., Dinero, T.E., Seibel, C.A. Stranger and acquaintance rape: Are there differences in the victim's experience? Psychology of Women Quarterly. 1988:12:1-24.

7. Malamuth N.M. Rape proclivity among males. J Soc Issues. 1981;37:138-157.

8. Rapaport, Karen R. and C. Dale Posey. Sexually Coercive College Males. Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, edited by Andrea Parrot. John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

9. Ellis, Atkeson, Calhoun, 1982: Gidycz, Coble, Latham, Layman, (1993); Guthrie, Notgrass, 1992.

10. Frieze IH, Browne A. Violence in marriage. In: Ohlin, L, Tonry, M, eds. Family Violence: Crime and Justice, A Review of Research. Chicago, Ill: University of Chicago Press; 1989:163-218.

11. American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Adolescence. Sexual assault and the adolescent. Pediatrics. 1994;94(5):761-765.

12. Heise, L.L. Reproductive freedom and violence against women: where are the intersections? J Law Med Ethics. 1993;21(2):206-216.


To put it in perspective (though totally anecdotal) of the 6 women I was close with in college (either dated or close enough friends that they were willing to confide in me) half of them told me that they had been sexually assaulted, (and I tend to believe them) either by strangers or by acquaintances during their time there. None of them were drinking at the time. Now to be fair, MSU had a particularly bad reputation for sexual assaults on campus (One late-nite path across campus was given the nickname "The rape trail")


Last edited by TheRiov on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:08 pm 
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· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl;


I would love to see the exact phrasing of the question that got that result.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:32 pm 
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TheRiov:

Why are you using 20 year old data, particularly data that was collected before data was collected about false reporting practices and propensity?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:45 pm 
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Because the feminist fundamentally incapable of thinking beyond commiseration with a poor woman who feels intimidated. They are not concerned with actually helping women, and in fact, helping women is contrary to their primary motivation. Every woman who finds justice for assault or who advances her standing in society is one less woman to stand as an example of how the Patriarchy oppresses all of us.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:12 pm 
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[url]http://www.aei.org/publication/more-on-the-white-house-claim-that-1-in-5-women-are-sexually-assaulted-while-in-college/]The 1-in-5 statistic is not actually believable[/url]

It's probably more like 1 in 39 at a fairly typical large university

The numbers for campus rape are intentionally inflated by the rape industry. Much like the domestic violence industry, it's about money - only rapes that "fit the profile" are acceptable (i.e. we can't have any same sex rape cases clouding the issue, and female-on-male assaults can't even be seriously investigated; the idea has to be ridiculed out of existence lest science reveal uncomfortable problems with our model), and those numbers need to be as high as possible to keep the grants and donations flowing in.

That's why "sexually assaulted" is so frequently conflated with "raped", even though "sexually assaulted" can mean something as simple as "he tried to kiss me, I pushed him away, and then he stopped".

There is also a reason that campus rape is suddenly such an issue - it's perceived as a problem involving white males, preferably frat brothers that we all love to hate. We want to keep the attention focused on [i]white[/qi] rapists. If we focused on rape in general, we'd see more black men being accused and that might cause uncomfortable questions about black incarceration rates to be raised - and we can't have that. Although it wasn't a rape case, that's exactly what happened in the OJ Simpson case. Tammy Bruce wrote about how she, as the LA chapter of NOW, was silenced by the national-level organization on domestic violence during that case because of fears of a rift between activism for blacks and activism for women.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:08 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
the rape industry


No. Please no.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:15 am 
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It's the rape clearance! We've got a brand new shipment of rape coming in, and we need to make room on the shelves! Everything must go! Buy 1 rape, get 1 free!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:58 am 
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I keep waiting for us to outsource that industry, but nooooo.

"C'mon, buy a rape, just one rape, please I'm beggin' ya, ol' Gil's just gotta move some rapes here..."

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Edit: Show of hands, how many people read this in Gil's voice?


Last edited by FarSky on Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:19 am 
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Unfortunately, the sad fact is that any sort of crime with a large amount of victim advocacy and public campaigning against that crime is an industry.

Rape, Domestic Violence, and Drunk Driving are all like that. There might be other examples as well.

There are people that work, both part time and full time, doing various forms of victim advocacy, support, and various sorts of politicking around these crimes. Some of these people are paid very well to do so.

Serious inroads into the prevalence of these crimes would threaten their livelihood. However, most of these people are not so cynical that they're just in it for the money; they honestly believe in their cause; while the loss of income is part of the threat to them it isn't the whole thing. If their job didn't exist anymore it would mean they weren't needed. Their mission - their sense of identity as a crusader against the moral wrong that they hate - would go away. If a problem is really being dealt with effectively already, you don't need crusaders against it. You're not changing the world; you're just a functionary doing what you're supposed to do.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:19 am 
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I'm glad you guys went there. Because I was about to start going from the moment I read the phrase "Rape industry"... and then found some rare moment of restraint. Carlin's been gone too long, I'm becoming less comfortable joking about rape.

I know, I'll go watch some Jimmy Carr stand-up.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:22 am 
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Talya wrote:
I know, I'll go watch some Jimmy Carr stand-up.

See, that's how you know it's OK. Under the circumstances, Jimmy Carr = fine. Jimmy Savile...not.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:12 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Edit: Show of hands, how many people read this in Gil's voice?


Unfortunately, I don't actually know what Gil sounds like.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Talya wrote:
I'm glad you guys went there. Because I was about to start going from the moment I read the phrase "Rape industry"... and then found some rare moment of restraint. Carlin's been gone too long, I'm becoming less comfortable joking about rape.

I know, I'll go watch some Jimmy Carr stand-up.

Piss on you, I work for Mel Brooks.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:47 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I keep waiting for us to outsource that industry, but nooooo.

"C'mon, buy a rape, just one rape, please I'm beggin' ya, ol' Gil's just gotta move some rapes here..."

Image

Edit: Show of hands, how many people read this in Gil's voice?

/me raises hand sheepishly

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:09 pm 
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I've known too many ladies that have been raped, in school, in the military, in jobs that would seem perfectly safe. One of the ones in the military was working under a vehicle when her Major pulled her out from under, smacked her around a few times, then raped her. He'd just gotten a dear John letter and blamed it on his ex. She was transferred to another unit, no action was taken on him.

Deny it all you like, there is a rape culture that rots our society to the core. Some may abuse it and make an industry out of it, but it is real, it is there, and it is not funny.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Contrary to popular belief, I generally try to admit when I'm wrong. The first report I quoted was not from a source I have any experience with and grabbed because I was in a hurry. So with that in mind, this is a reputable source: http://ippsr.msu.edu/NCHA/NCHA_2014_Report.pdf
I am intimately familiar with this particular organization (IPPSR) I worked for them for several years, and am well acquainted with both their staff and methodologies. Their numbers are good.



Now a couple of caveats, a) this is a single university that does have a somewhat negative reputation for drinking and partying but I'm not sure where they compare with the national statistics. b) this is a single year's sample c) MSU has had the last several years working hard on a sexual assault awareness program.

According to this report (page 49) 1.6% of females reported being penetrated without consent within the last year. 2.9% reported attempted penetration within the last year. Assuming a 4-5 year college career that's 12-15% of females would experience one sexual assault in the course of their time at college. (Granted there is probably significant aggregation if certain high risk behaviors are repeated)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:09 am 
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Micheal wrote:
I've known too many ladies that have been raped, in school, in the military, in jobs that would seem perfectly safe. One of the ones in the military was working under a vehicle when her Major pulled her out from under, smacked her around a few times, then raped her. He'd just gotten a dear John letter and blamed it on his ex. She was transferred to another unit, no action was taken on him.

Deny it all you like, there is a rape culture that rots our society to the core. Some may abuse it and make an industry out of it, but it is real, it is there, and it is not funny.


Except that there isn't. So yes, we'll deny it.

That story is.. not terribly believable. A major raped her in broad daylight and nothing happened? No, sorry. I might actually believe that if it was "he called me in his office and started putting the moves on me and I didn't know what to do" but right in the middle of the motor pool?

A major is not a big enough deal to make something like that go away, Michael. A General really isn't. Things happen behind closed doors for a reason. I have no idea what happened to your friend to make her tell you that story - but it was not the incident you just related. That is completely unbelievable. I am astounded you would actually give that story credence.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:24 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, I generally try to admit when I'm wrong. The first report I quoted was not from a source I have any experience with and grabbed because I was in a hurry. So with that in mind, this is a reputable source: http://ippsr.msu.edu/NCHA/NCHA_2014_Report.pdf
I am intimately familiar with this particular organization (IPPSR) I worked for them for several years, and am well acquainted with both their staff and methodologies. Their numbers are good.



Now a couple of caveats, a) this is a single university that does have a somewhat negative reputation for drinking and partying but I'm not sure where they compare with the national statistics. b) this is a single year's sample c) MSU has had the last several years working hard on a sexual assault awareness program.

According to this report (page 49) 1.6% of females reported being penetrated without consent within the last year. 2.9% reported attempted penetration within the last year. Assuming a 4-5 year college career that's 12-15% of females would experience one sexual assault in the course of their time at college. (Granted there is probably significant aggregation if certain high risk behaviors are repeated)


The actual rate of rape among female college students is about 4.3 per thousand annually or well under 1% - and has been dropping - slowly - since 1997. See page 3.

Rape culture does not exist.

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