The Glade 4.0

So, what about their signs, their message, etc, was particularly fascist-y for you? Were they violent? Did they attack anyone or intimidate them?

I mean, the right protests in front of schools, medical clinics, and it would be generous to call the protest outside the capital yesterday as "mild" - some of those signs and slogans were downright hateful. Was that fascist-y too?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549903,00.html

ooops they did it again,

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Is there any evidence at all that this is a policy for ACORN? Again, I'm not convinced by a shotgun style gotcha sting operation.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Shotgun style gotcha sting what? They went in, asked questions, and were given answers. The people at ACORN could have at any time said "no, that's illegal, we will not be part of this". Stop trying to make it seem like they were set up.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Please provide your definition of fascist.

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The Dude abides.

Come now, Nitefox, that's not entirely true.

Shotgun - they went to ACORN office after ACORN office, state after state, until someone finally took their bait. They used hidden cameras and misrepresented themselves. Most of the employees sent them packing, and a few have inexplicably not done so.

They *were* set up. These conservative activists set them up, posing as a prostitute and her pimp and secretly recorded the conversation.

Has anyone established that this response is a policy of ACORN? Because the conservative activists are not providing the tapes of the ACORN employees that sent them away. If it was a policy of ACORN, the ones that refused these activists would be the ones getting fired.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

What's not true about what I said Monty? Did two people go into an office and ask questions? Were the nature of their questions illegal? Did the ACORN employees give advice? Was the nature of the advice the ACORN employees give illegal?

What's not true about that?

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Any evidence of this?



Any evidence of this?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

For both of your questions, ACORN's spokesman's statement -

CNN Article



Also, from the article, I thought this was interesting, if unrelated. It does speak to the fact that ACORN is usually the organization that turns in people participating in voter registration fraud.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Schools and medical clinics are public facilities, or facilities open to the public if privately owned. A home is not. The comparison is not adequate.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

If their protest was on a public sidewalk or road, then your argument doesn't hold any water. If they were trespassing, then they should have been arrested.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Of course it holds water. Protests at clinics and schools are on public sidewalks and streets too. The fact that protestors are on the public sidewalk does not change the fact that they are trying to intimidate a person in the home in front of it.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Or, at the very least, the organization is adept at attracting bad apples, and thus I'm glad it's not being involved in data collection that could be corrupted to political ends. It could also certainly stand some scrutiny the next couple election cycles.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I could be wrong, but I kind of figured the entire point was to intimidate the AIG execs into giving back their bonuses. I certainly remember several of them saying they felt threatened by the hate directed at them.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Ok, so let's use intimidation as the metric to decide if a protest has crossed the line, then. In light of this, do you support the people that brought loaded assault rifles to protests over health care in august?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

That's called "investigative journalism," or at least a technique thereof.

Provided one-sided recordings are legal in the states where the commenced these operations, there is nothing illegal, immoral, or ethically wrong with their actions. In fact, for having exposed such behavior they should be lauded.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

He made this statement before the NY tape came out, so it rather undermines his credibility.
He also said the allegations were false (if they are false why fire those honest, good people?), so his statement, as ACORN PR, is rather suspect.
Sorry, I should have been specific. Any concrete and/or non-hearsay evidence?



Any evidence that ACORN usually turns in people participating in fraud before they are investigated?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Right, but neither of them are actually journalists. They are conservative political activists.



That entirely depends on their motivations and how biased their tapes are. From what I understand they are heavily edited, and may even be dishonest.

Furthermore, they exposed the behavior of some individuals within an organization. What is dishonest for them to do is try an paint the entire organization with that broad brush.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Any evidence of this?


I'll keep that in mind.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Actually, one of the recent cases of voter fraud (forget which state, Fla?) were initiated by ACORN turning in the suspect records to the appropriate authorities for review.

However, given the names used to perpetuate the fraud, I would say it is equally likely they did it because even they realized how obvious it was as it was good intentions on their part to abide by the laws.

That's true Ladas, however, my question was instigated by the assertion that ACORN usually initiates the investigation/turns people in etc. before they are inverstigated.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Irrelevant. Journalism is not a credentialed profession.



Unless you've somehow been privy to the original source material, that's quite the accusation to sling without any evidence.



False. Negligence claims, such as this could conceivably be called, can target the operating entity, not the individuals within that entity alone.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Since the transcript of at least one of the videos are available, I'd say that that's quite an accusation to sling in spite of the evidence.



False. Negligence claims, such as this could conceivably be called, can target the operating entity, not the individuals within that entity alone.[/quote]

In light of the investigations/indictments in what, 15 states, against individuals as well as the indictments against ACORN itself, it would appear that a pattern of willful fraud is appropriate.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I don't expect you to believe anything anyone on this board types, but we are who we are.

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"Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition, there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
- George Soros