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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:40 am 
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I actually HAVE that Giant Meteor bumper sticker on my car.

It's the only political bumper sticker I've ever let come anywhere near an actual bumper of my car.

Needless to say, I get a lot of comments. =)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:08 pm 
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From the "DPRK News Service"

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US president Obama implores America to entrust nuclear launch codes to woman described as negligent and slipshod with mere electronic mails.


Expect more triumphant braying from the she-ass shortly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:27 pm 
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The funny thing is that the more information that comes out about this, the more it becomes obvious that Hillary wasn't lying when she said she just wanted this server for convenience. Hillary is basically the equivalent of the IT-horror-story CEO that gets your corporate network cryptowalled three times in a year because they won't stop clicking on email attachments and won't consent to having antivirus installed because they find the popups to be annoying. She didn't want to deal with "annoying" complex passwords and multi factor authentication, she wanted it to "just work" at the push of a button and don't **** bother me with your concerns, I have important stuff to do, I don't have time to remember any of this, just make it work.

It's seriously the only good explanation for why the whole thing just seems so amateur hour and why no charges were recommended.....she couldn't have malicious intent because she's just that clueless when it comes to IT matters.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:41 am 
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There is absolutely nothing funny about the Clinton email situation, unless you count the apologists that continue to believe her bullshit.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:49 am 
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Actually, there is something funny about the Clinton emails. Republicans introduced bills into the House that would have exonerated Hillary by making the defense about not intending to break the law perfectly valid. Senate Democrats blocked the bill because it would prevent them from prosecuting corporate fat cats.

Clintons actions were illegal, and they remain illegal because of Clinton's party. I haven't looked at her voting record on the matter, but Clinton's actions were very likely illegal because of Clinton's own vote in the Senate.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:43 am 
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What law did Hillary actually break? State Department policies are not laws. People like to claim she committed a crime just by having classified info on her server but these claims are facially ridiculous, if it was a crime to have classified info on an email server then no one could have an email server because you could instantly become a felon as soon as anyone sends you an email.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:24 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
if it was a crime to have classified info on an email server then no one could have an email server because you could instantly become a felon as soon as anyone sends you an email.


She knowingly sent AND received Top Secret Special Access information using this server.

She's the freaking Secretary of State, not the Secretary of the DMV. She can't possibly be stupid enough to believe she wouldn't be sending/receiving classified information.

She also gave her lawyers access to classified information be letting them remove and delete 'personal' emails (using automated tools/keyword searches - and not documenting any of it).

She's too stupid to be walking the streets.

Put her in prison... or the White House.. I suppose that works too...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:27 am 
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http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/05/if-you-want-the-government-to-forgive-yo

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:02 am 
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Quote:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/05/if-you-want-the-government-to-forgive-yo


Literally every counterexample listed here was active duty military, and they get their own separate set of laws. The military can always fall back on "failure to obey a lawful order" to nail them even in the absence of intent. This blog consists of nothing but a bare assertion that Hillary's conduct was criminal, it provides no information whatsoever to back this up.

It's not illegal to have classified email on your email server.
It's not illegal to send classified email off that server, either.
It's only illegal to willfully send classified information to someone not authorized to receive it, or to allow it to fall into their hands via gross negligence. Has it even been conclusively proved that Hillary's server was even hacked at all?

Sure, she was stupid and irresponsible, but she didn't break the law.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Quote:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/05/if-you-want-the-government-to-forgive-yo


Literally every counterexample listed here was active duty military, and they get their own separate set of laws. The military can always fall back on "failure to obey a lawful order" to nail them even in the absence of intent. This blog consists of nothing but a bare assertion that Hillary's conduct was criminal, it provides no information whatsoever to back this up.

It's not illegal to have classified email on your email server.
It's not illegal to send classified email off that server, either.
It's only illegal to willfully send classified information to someone not authorized to receive it, or to allow it to fall into their hands via gross negligence. Has it even been conclusively proved that Hillary's server was even hacked at all?

Sure, she was stupid and irresponsible, but she didn't break the law.


Let's just pretend for a minute the what you are saying (re: what is illegal) is true, and not completely and utterly ludicrous, she still broke the law by giving her (non-cleared) lawyers access to her TOP SECRET SPECIAL ACCESS email, and I'm not sure how you could possibly find a better dictionary definition example of 'Gross Negligence' (in this context) than what she did here.

That we as a country are legitimately considering putting this person in charge of (the people responsible for) all of our country's military and intelligence information is beyond idiocy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
Let's just pretend for a minute the what you are saying (re: what is illegal) is true, and not completely and utterly ludicrous, she still broke the law by giving her (non-cleared) lawyers access to her TOP SECRET SPECIAL ACCESS email, and I'm not sure how you could possibly find a better dictionary definition example of 'Gross Negligence' (in this context) than what she did here.

That we as a country are legitimately considering putting this person in charge of (the people responsible for) all of our country's military and intelligence information is beyond idiocy.


"Classified information stays on classified networks" is a State Dept policy, or a military order. It's not a federal law. Also, while Hillary's keeping of a private server could be shown as negligent, they still have to show that classified information was disseminated as a result of that negligence and as far as I know there's no proof that Hillary's server ever actually was hacked.

However, I wasn't aware that Hillary's lawyers didn't have security clearances. The fact that they didn't is honestly pretty damning. I don't know if attorney/client privilege covers that but I suspect not. Also, the fact that she did it in 2014 means she can't even use the defense that as the head of the State Dept it's her that gets to decide what is classified and what isn't.

I don't like Hillary very much, if it was Rubio running against her I'd vote for him in a second. Unfortunately, Donald Trump is far worse. He wants to pull out of NATO, pull out of NAFTA, start a trade war with China, ban people from entering the country based on religion, and build a ridiculous wall and attempt to bully Mexico into paying for it. He is overtly racist to the point that it's a reasonable conclusion that he has actual malice towards blacks and hispanics rather than just prejudice against them because their skin color is an easy statistical indicator for other problems. He's at least as narcissistic as Hillary is on top of that. Hillary's IT incompetence pales in comparison.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:34 pm 
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What do you take away from the fact that she was never asked to give a sworn statement (i.e. under oath) ?

take a read here...

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ail-system

Some fun excerpts

"Objectives"
fbi.gov wrote:
Our investigation looked at whether there is evidence classified information was improperly stored or transmitted on that personal system, in violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or in a grossly negligent way, or a second statute making it a misdemeanor to knowingly remove classified information from appropriate systems or storage facilities.

Consistent with our counterintelligence responsibilities, we have also investigated to determine whether there is evidence of computer intrusion in connection with the personal e-mail server by any foreign power, or other hostile actors

This is a good one. Based on this, I'm fairly certain the FBI has no real idea exactly what happened on those servers, considering some of them were 'disposed' of. There are honestly a lot more questions than answers here. Who disposed of them, and how? Who were the administrators, and what were their security clearances? I worked around classified military information for 20 years, including TS/SCI and SA, and you couldn't even get into a room where those servers were, let along be an user or administrator on one without a TS clearance.

fbi.gov wrote:
Secretary Clinton used several different servers and administrators of those servers during her four years at the State Department, and used numerous mobile devices to view and send e-mail on that personal domain. As new servers and equipment were employed, older servers were taken out of service, stored, and decommissioned in various ways.

fbi.gov wrote:
It is also likely that there are other work-related e-mails that they did not produce to State and that we did not find elsewhere, and that are now gone because they deleted all e-mails they did not return to State, and the lawyers cleaned their devices in such a way as to preclude complete forensic recovery.

This one is pure comedy gold...
fbi.gov wrote:
Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.

Especially considering the very next paragraph basically says she should have known (duh?)...
fbi.gov wrote:
Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.

For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).

None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

Yup, the FBI basically said your Gmail is more secure that the Secretary of States email server. This doesn't make me feel so great ....

fbi.gov wrote:
Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it.

While not the focus of our investigation, we also developed evidence that the security culture of the State Department in general, and with respect to use of unclassified e-mail systems in particular, was generally lacking in the kind of care for classified information found elsewhere in the government.

This is/was Hillarys organi'zation. Even if you want to play word games with the laws as written, you can't take exception to the fact that SHE should be held accountable for the "lack of care" for handling classified information.

I'll say this again. She wasn't in charge of parking tickets or state parks!. She was the SECRETARY OF FREAKIN' STATE!

I've seen it reported numerous times that the servers were not hacked. The fact is, even the FBI admitted, they have NO FREAKING IDEA if they were hacked or not. They very well could have been.

And lots more "Gross Negligence" described here.

Again, this is the FBI report that was used to recommend *not* attempting prosecution. Not some right wing blog twisting words to their whim.

fbi.gov wrote:
With respect to potential computer intrusion by hostile actors, we did not find direct evidence that Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail domain, in its various configurations since 2009, was successfully hacked. But, given the nature of the system and of the actors potentially involved, we assess that we would be unlikely to see such direct evidence. We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial e-mail accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton’s use of a personal e-mail domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent. She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.

The remaining seven or eight paragraphs are used to try to justify not recommending a trial.

If you think that the FBI's recommendation, and the AG subsequently following them, is not politics at it's worst, I'd hate to see what you think of as stinky, rotten, politics.

If this had happened under the responsibility of ANY other person on planet earth, they would be going to jail. There is NO question about this. She was promised this election 4 (or 8) years ago, and she's going to get it.

I'm no fan of Donald Trump, and detest the idea that he's being considered for President of the United States, but that possibility IS NOT WORSE than electing Hillary Clinton.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:20 pm 
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Look, I get how all this stuff reflects badly on Hillary, but it's simply not illegal to have or send classified information from an unclassified server. All the things you're talking about are State Dept policies that she broke, not laws. Gross negligence in this matter is also only a crime if there was an actual data breach in conjunction with the negligence, and they can't prove that happened. What you're laying out are grounds for her to be fired and/or have her security clearance revoked, they're not grounds for prosecution. Other than the lawyer thing, you still haven't given any examples of laws being broken. "Could have" been hacked doesn't fly when you're trying to prosecute someone. Being careless and exposing the info is also irrelevant as far as a criminal prosecution goes if they don't have evidence that someone actually took advantage.

Also, are the targets of criminal investigations normally asked to give sworn statements? People can't be asked to incriminate themselves, after all.

FYI, Gmail has really good security. I'd definitely trust Google's email security over that of the State Dept.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:13 am 
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How about grounds for not electing her President of the United Fscking States?

And LOL @ your gmail comment. Gmail is not secure, unless by 'secure', you mean it uses SSL certificates....

*sigh


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:10 am 
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I'm not 100% sure what meaning of "secure" you're going for here. I guess you could say it's insecure in the sense that there are Google employees without clearance that could potentially read your stuff. However, if we're talking about the system being resistant to, say, Russian hackers I'd trust Google's email implementation over the State Dept's any day of the week.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:17 am 
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Xequecal:

I can't decide if you're a troll or you're really that **** stupid.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:27 am 
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He's right about one thing:

Private corporations like Google, Apple, etc. are far better at electronic security than any government, from a purely technical standpoint.

The problem is that security is NOT purely technical.

(Edit: - elaboration now that I'm not posting from my phone.)

Companies like Google are very, very good at security. Better than anybody, from a technical standpoint. They're on the bleeding edge of digital security. However ... security is not the priority of their experience. When you're making something like gmail available to a billion people, it needs to be easily accessible to those billion people, most of whom can't remember truly complex passwords (who really can?), don't have access to biometric authentication, and use insecure systems from which to access their email. Furthermore, they have competing priorities to security apart from accessibility, including things like monetization, mobility, and ease of use. The US Government is borrowing expertise and tech from industry leaders, but when they want something secure, that security is the primary concern. So Google may be better at it from a technological perspective, but they CANNOT be better from an implementation perspective, without making gmail inaccessible to most of their userbase.

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Last edited by Talya on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:17 am 
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Kairtane wrote:
Xequecal:

I can't decide if you're a troll or you're really that **** stupid.


Dude, you can flame me all you want, I've read the actual law here. This is the part that's relevant:

Quote:
(d) Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


Absent some kind of proof that her server was hacked and classified information pulled off of it, Hillary's private email server just doesn't violate this law.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:46 am 
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Of course the fact that any possible evidence of the server being hacked was destroyed by people who shouldn't even have had access isn't really a problem...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:38 am 
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You can not argue the legality of Hillary Clinton's actions with left-wing conservatives. They have already decided that they want Hillary Clinton to become the first female President of the United States, which requires that she not be guilty of any federal crime. Therefore, any information that might implicate Hillary is discarded out of hand because it conflicts with the requirement that she not be guilty.

It's a lot like the mental gymnastics right-wing conservatives employ on a regular basis to promote their own agenda. The only real new ground here is that I've discarded the notion that the left-wingers are liberals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:57 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
I've discarded the notion that the left-wingers are liberals.



This idea was the inspiration for this post:
http://irishjackie.blogspot.ca/2016/07/ ... anity.html

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Corolinth wrote:
You can not argue the legality of Hillary Clinton's actions with left-wing conservatives. They have already decided that they want Hillary Clinton to become the first female President of the United States, which requires that she not be guilty of any federal crime. Therefore, any information that might implicate Hillary is discarded out of hand because it conflicts with the requirement that she not be guilty.

It's a lot like the mental gymnastics right-wing conservatives employ on a regular basis to promote their own agenda. The only real new ground here is that I've discarded the notion that the left-wingers are liberals.


Yeah, I didn't discard anything. I already said her letting her lawyers go over the emails is a problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:34 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
She also gave her lawyers access to classified information be letting them remove and delete 'personal' emails (using automated tools/keyword searches - and not documenting any of it).


I thought they had some clearances (and State set up an approved safe for them), just not high enough to continue storing the files at their firm once the few TS/SCI files were found, which is when FBI stepped in and took the thumb drive, server, etc in order to secure them:

Quote:
"Recent news reports indicate that as Secretary Clinton’s attorney you had a security clearance that was used to possess her official emails. In fact, according to a Washington Post report, the Department of State allegedly instructed you on “appropriate measures for physically securing” her classified emails.[1] However, since that report, the Intelligence Community Inspector General (IC IG) notified the Judiciary Committee that at least two emails on Secretary Clinton’s server were – and are – classified at the Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information (TS/SCI) level. Importantly, according to the IC IG and Department of State Inspector General, the emails were classified at that level when created," Grassley wrote in a letter to Kendall Monday (bolding is mine). "In light of that particular classification, which generally requires advanced protocols such as a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF) and other similar arrangements to possess and view, it appears the FBI has determined that your clearance is not sufficient to allow you to maintain custody of the emails. Consistent with that determination, the FBI is now in custody of not only the thumb drives previously in your possession that allegedly contain all of Secretary Clinton’s emails, but also Secretary Clinton’s personal server that was used to maintain the top secret emails outside of a government facility."


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli ... s-n2039914

State is like a dumpster fire of bad policies.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:15 pm 
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So, you are that **** stupid.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Kairtane wrote:
So, you are that **** stupid.


Do you have anything to contribute other than passive aggressive sniping?


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