The Glade 4.0

This, by the way, is going to tear through legacy Republicans as well.

Jim Mattis just fired a lawyer working with Gitmo who has been heavily involved in covering up CIA abuses. If they'd turned him you'll hear about similar abuses of power under the Bush administration.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Remember the Hillary Clinton email scandal? You're going to hear about it again as the Clinton's and their massive global money laundering enterprise get roped in. This investigation is the reason she had the server. This is what she way trying to hide. The thing is, the prosecution already has the "lost" emails from the "wiped" server.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Where do you even get your “facts”

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-02-06%20CEG%20LG%20to%20DOJ%20FBI%20(Unclassified%20Steele%20Referral).pdf

Grassley's Senate memo, largely unredacted.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Rynar - Can you give a basic rundown of what it is you think the underlying abuses are that all of these supposed machinations are intended to cover up? I'm kind of losing the thread here.

Page 7 of Grassley's memo, last two paragraphs, are where the meat is:

"Thus, the FISA applications are either materially false in claiming that Mr. Steele said he did not provide dossier information to the press prior to October 2016, or Mr. Steele made materially false statements to the FBI when he claimed he only provided the dossier information to his business partner and the FBI."

"Mr. Steele's information formed a significant portion of the FBI's warrant application, and the FISA application relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than on any independent verification or corroboration for his claims. Thus the basis for the warrant authorizing surveillance on a U.S. citizen rests largely on Mr. Steele's credibility."

Grassley is calling the FBI's bluff here. He's knows full well that the FBI and DOJ were coordinating their efforts with Steele to push the dossier to the press, as the press was sourcing "anonymous sources within the FBI", and we've already seen some of this come to light in the form of released texts etc. (Ohr) Which is all spelled out in Horowitz's 1.2m page IG Report, which Grassley has read.

This is where it starts to get fun. I mean, unless you're one of the would be monarchs who set about attempting to undo the concept of free and fair elections, and then attempted a coup to overthrow the legitimate federal government when they failed. For them this is going to be terrible.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

The FBI used the Steele Dossier to apply for a FISA warrant on Flynn, despite knowing that it was comissioned by the DNC, and did not disclose this to the court. The DOJ then used evidence obtained via this wiretap to prosecute Flynn, and he eventually ended up pleading guilty to lying to the FBI.

That's, like, not good, but prosecutors submitting evidence to courts that they know was illegally obtained happens all the time, and said prosecutors usually don't even get fired if they get caught, let alone go to jail. You could make an argument that this would be Watergate-level if it were 2014 and Obama were still in office, but since he's not, I'm not really sure it's going to go anywhere.

Not in an effort to directly influence the outcome of a presidential election they don't. Comparing this to "what happens all the time" is like comparing a burglar's breaking and entering grandma's house to the Brinks robbery.

I'm kinda surprised you're not more incensed than your post suggests, X. This was an attempt to disenfranchise a huge percentage of US citizens of their 15th amendment rights by representatives of the US government... and there are guilty still entrenched in the government.

That, and we've not even begun finding out if an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government has been made. Using fake evidence to access the FISA cache to attack a sitting president in order to impeach seems to qualify as treason to me.

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In time, this too shall pass.

It's mainly because there's no "side" to really blame, the fact that everyone in Washington hates Trump and is willing to resort to dirty tricks to bring him down has been obvious for some time. The Steele Dossier was hand-delivered to the FISA Court and vouched for by none other than John McCain. It seems rather pointless to get enraged over something that isn't going to change. The FISA court isn't going away. Even Trump's own appointees aren't supporting him on this, Sessions seems more interested in going after medical marijuana than going after this.

Fundamentally, Trump's platform is good for the economics of the US, but really really bad for almost everyone else, and that's not good for you if you have global financial interests. (Read: Everyone in DC.) They're not going to stop obstructing him. For example, the vast majority of the country supports Trump's immigration compromise but no deal will occur because it's not in any of their interests.

Right, but I thought that's what you considered to be the cover-up. In other words, I thought you were arguing that the FISA applications and the Steele Dossier were part of a plot to help Clinton win the election and/or remove Trump from office, but that whole plot (as well as Clinton's off-site email server while serving as SoS) was itself driven by the need to cover-up prior malfeasance. I'm mainly wondering what that prior malfeasance is supposed to be. You alluded to money laundering, murder and treason, but by 2016, Clinton had spent pretty much the last 25 years being accused of and investigated for such things - including 8 years with a Republican President - and Obama had been routinely accused of and investigated by the Republicans in Congress for various alleged scandals and abuses throughout his Administration. So what is it that you think was so novel and so damning circa 2016 that they would go to all the trouble and risk of cooking up a phony counter-intelligence operation and improperly obtaining FISA warrants even though pretty much everyone expected Clinton to comfortably win the election anyway?

Also, as a side note, what if Donald Trump hadn't been the Republican nominee in the first place or the whole Russia situation hadn't arisen (either because the Russians didn't hack the DNC's email or because Trump didn't select campaign advisers with a history of dubious Russian connections? Generally speaking, the odds favor a generic Republican for the White House after two terms under Dem control, so do you believe Clinton/Obama were planning to somehow rig the election no matter what, and the Russia thing (and the alleged FISA abuses that go with it) just happens to be the angle they chose for Trump under the circumstances? Or do you think the whole thing is a giant fake-out - i.e., that Russia wasn't actually behind the DNC hacks and none of Trump's campaign people had any dubious Russian connections?

Hillary would have won, evidence would have disappeared, and the media would have applauded.

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In time, this too shall pass.

The Nunes and Grassley memos do claim that the FBI didn't disclose to the FISC that the Steele Dossier was ultimately paid for by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC. However, that's a suspiciously narrow statement that doesn't actually tell us anything about what the FBI did disclose. For all we know, the FBI may have disclosed that the Dossier was funded by individuals and groups associated with a rival political campaign, which would have been more than sufficient specificity in most cases, as warrant applications often refer to sources descriptively rather than expressly naming them. Indeed, the Grassley memo itself acknowledges that the FBI's application "noted to a vaguely limited extent the political origins of the dossier", so even the Republicans complaining about this admit that the political nature of the source wasn't hidden from the FISC. At that point, if the FISC felt more disclosure was needed, it could have asked, so unless we're not assuming that the Republican-appointed judges on the FISC were also colluding with the (originally) Republican-appointed FBI officials in order to help a Democratic candidate illegally spy on a Republican candidate, I don't think there's much "there" there.

Now, that said, I have a lot of concerns with the secrecy and scope of the FISA process in general and with the permissive approach that the FISC has historically taken to FISA surveillance applications - something like 99% of applications are granted - but that's a very different issue than the deliberate malfeasance that Trump's defenders are alleging here.

Every poll, pundit and major political figure believed at the time that Clinton was significantly more likely to beat Trump than any of the other Republican nominees, so any plan/intent to rig the election against him would have been even more urgent against any other nominee. So again, are you saying that you believe the Dems were planning to rig the election no matter what? And if so, were the Russian hacking and connections to Trump's campaign people just lucky coincidences that provided a convenient rationale for the surveillance, or was that all a setup too?

Both political parties absolutely plan to "rig" an election each and every time an election is held. You make it sound as if this is a shocking development.

The IRS targeting conservative organization, the leaks by "unnamed sources", the media collusion, and fabrication of evidence to suborn the FBI and the justice system. The DNC is admittedly guilty of "rigging" the primary election by pre-selecting the democratic candidate, according to the DNC chair. Then you have the FBI director orchestrating a leak because he hoped it would lead to the appointment of a special prosecutor to lead the Russia investigation. That's just the tip of the iceberg from the political dirty tricks of the last couple of years. As far as "Russian connections", there's been plenty of evidence that foreign influence has been sought by both political parties, "the Russians are coming" is just one flavor of the **** pie that's being served the public by the media, and there are Russian connections to all parties involved. Even Schiff personally got in on "Russian collusion" when pranked last year by Kuznetsov and Stolyarov.

The extent of the corruption this time around seems to have been brought about because the winner was universally hated by both parties. My best guess is, they all thought that since the president was surrounded by enemies and the other party was on-board, they didn't have anything to worry about.

Rig the election no matter what? Absolutely.

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In time, this too shall pass.

The idea is very much that Republicans and Democrats were colluding against Trump. It's not ALL Republicans and Democrats, just the longstanding veterans with extensive donor lists and global interests. If Rubio or Cruz had gotten the nomination, they'd just have had a fair election and the FISA stuff would have stayed secret and not pursued. The Republicans made no secret of how much they hated Trump during the campaign, after all. Trump is the one who was seriously proposing things like, "pull out of NATO" and "40% tariff on China" and "reduce immigration to 10% of current level with RAISE Act." It's Trump that was planning to drain the swamp. These kinds of things are catastrophic to the global interests of both Republicans and Democrats, (and their donors) it's not surprising they both wanted Trump gone.

Trump is in a pretty dominant position now where he can basically strongarm everyone in the world into doing what he wants because the world depends on the US Navy to keep the trade lanes open. I mean he literally just went to Palestine and told them he either gets everything he wants or he'll withdraw all money and they can all starve to death. Mattis had to talk him out of totally cutting them off. One-sided tariffs and him essentially extracting tribute from everyone else is very bad news for people that have worldwide financial interests.

I'm going to provide a primer that was provided to me by a friend of mine who is an investigative journalist who has been working on this for more than three years, using a variety of sources. I'll post it at some point today.

What I will give you think about until I do so, is that Mike Flynn is not what you think. Mike Flynn is a barium meal fed to the USIC in order to ferret out the rats and expose this whole mess. At the end of this he's going to get a medal. It's also helpful to realize that President Trump was recruited to run for office by members of the military intelligence community.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Wat? I kind of TL:DR'd your primer, but I guess I need to read how you get to that. That's a pretty amazing claim.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

The FISA warrant wasn't on Flynn. The FISA warrant was on Carter Page, and it was a Title I warrant, which means the FBI was asserting that Carter Page was an active spy for a foreign country. They sought this particular type of warrant because [i]it authorizes the FBI to monitor and collect data on anyone Carter Page had ever spoken to, which included the Trump campaign and Trump himself.

Remember during the election cycle when President Trump asserted that President Obama had wire tapped him? He had received intelligence from the DIA that it had happened. That was real.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

It's an awful lot to take in I know, but you can't make a claim like that without the information.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I'm still not sure where the military tribunal comes in. Nobody in this case is subject to the UCMJ, they would just get regular civilian trials, even if treason ended up being on the table. Unless you think Trump is actually going to start declaring US citizens terrorists and sending them to Guantanamo?

If it can be demonstrated that efforts were coordinated with any foreign government to overthrow the justly elected government, or to rig a federal election, that would be considered an act of war.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Thanks for the fulsome response in that new thread, Rynar. Gonna have to give me until the weekend to get through it all though!

Gladly.

I'm also very happy to answer any/all other questions as best I can.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

There's more to this. The FBI/DOJ had been the FISA warrant application on Page denied three times prior to the introduction of the dossier. FISA warrants are notoriously easy to obtain (only 0.03% get denied) yet this particular warrant was denied multiple times until the dossier was included.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

It is now being alledged that the Obama Administration was using unfettered access to raw SIGINT data without warrants to spy on all of his political opposition, including sitting Supreme Court Justices. If that's true I don't know that the proof would ever see the light if day, but it becomes very believable in the light of the SIGINT abuses coming to light.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20