The Glade 4.0

You are not using cloture correctly.

Thus, your ad hom attacks are ironic demonstrating only your own stupidity, rather than pointing out theirs.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Montegue:

You have shown that there has been an increase in cloture votes. You have not shown that they were in response to filibusters. As the original presenter of the chart you are bandying about stated, there are other reasons to call for cloture other than a filibuster.

For example, does this vote on cloture seem to be in response to a filibuster? You'll note that 89 voted for cloture, three against. How about this one? You'll note that the cloture vote was 85 to 2, and the final vote on the final bill was 98 to 0. Yet another filibuster?

You would do yourself a favor by showing the actual filibusters, rather than a procedural vote that ends debate - for a multiplicity of reasons.

It is obvious that your understanding of these procedures is limited; you have convinced no one otherwise with your childish antics.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

You guys really didn't expect him to read/understand Vindi's post did you ?

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/refere ... ns/110.htm

These are the Cloture Votes for the 2007-2008 Congress. Of the 139 Cloture votes made in the Senate during the 110th Congress, 122 of 139 were filed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Of those, only 50 failed their vote, while the other 72 were withdrawn (26 by Unanimous Consent), vitiated (2 by Unanimous Consent), or Invoked (41 of which passed by majorities such that there could have been no filibuster, leaving 3 which potentially broke a filibuster). Of the 50 failed votes, the split is generally so even as to demonstrate voting across party lines. I'm sorry, Montegue, but the general facts of the situation demonstrate your claims to be wrong. At most, you have 53 filibusters in the 110th Congress.

_________________

No, you are ignoring reality in favor of attacking a liberal, as per usual.

Cloture, in the context of the US Senate, is invoked in response to a filibuster. A filibuster, in the US Senate, is not just some guy reading from Moby Dick at the front of the room anymore. Republicans have forced cloture by extending debate infinitely, thus shutting down a bill of cloture is not invoked.

They filibustered 112 bills in the congress I named above. Do you dispute this? It was nearly twice the record of the most the Democratic senators filibustered when they went hog wild with it. Do you dispute this fact or not?

You probably shouldn't call someone stupid while you are making asinine arguments.

How many bills did the Republicans filibuster during the aforementioned congress? Just answer that question.

_________________


It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

No, you have 112 filibusters. Even you can't do the math. You want to define a filibuster by it's success, and not by it's application. Just because republicans didn't succeed in all of their filibusters doesn't mean they didn't use the tactic.

_________________


It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Montegue:

I can do the math. The voting records indicate you are wrong. There are only 53 instances in which the votes on the motion to cloture are close enough to have split the Senate at or near party lines. Indeed, most of the motions that failed exceeded 60 no votes. How does your assertion deal with that fact?

_________________

In fairness the votes and the numbers are often manipulated within the party and through negotiations. If you only need 3 votes to achieve cloture, you might be willing to throw a pork project or two someone's way to get the vote.

That sort of thing is not really able to be captured by statistics so a realistic picture of the occurances is not going to come from counting cloture votes.

*wonders how many of those clotures were used to keep Republicans from offering amendments, so the Dems can stay on the drumbeat that Republicans are just the "party of no".*

From your own source of those charts...



You also missed the part where cloture can be invoked before debate starts, whether there is a filibuster proposed or not, and that the Senate Majority leader can require a "traditional" filibuster if he/she so chooses, to put the pressure on the filibustering group to actually maintain the floor debate.

TheRiov:

Except, the evidence indicates that the claim of 112 filibusters is overblown. How do you negotiate no votes to cloture? You can't promise anything in bills that don't make it to a vote.

_________________

promises of projects on future bills?

The Smokey Back Room still exists.

Weather or not he requires a traditional filibuster is entirely irrelevant.

_________________


It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Unless someone stupidly states


But I'm not surprised you focused on that and ignored the main point of my statement regarding the use of cloture.