The Glade 4.0

Politically that won't happen, for any branch of the DoD.

and then subsidized and molly-coddled like the Commercial Airlines industry

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I doubt it. Like I said already, it's more likely to go the way of nuclear power.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That explains everything about Garriot...

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Not sure what you mean there, please expound on that Wwen.

TBH, though, what real advantage does the Moon offer us? It would take beaucoups of bucks to terra-form it for crops/etc. Even more to make it a permanent habitation (not even taking the cost of getting there into account). We've found an unclear amount of frozen water on the Moon that may or may not be renewable. Besides, who really would want to live there aside from scientists? The only advantage that I could see in the Moon is exploiting whatever resources it may have (which would only spark another similar debate thread to this).

That said, bolstering private spaceflight is pointless as well, UNLESS you have a specific goal in mind with it that will further your country/humanity.

Dropping the Moon in a period of Earthly recession is not necessarily a bad idea, but dropping the Moon in favor of something that won't really garner anything for the population as a whole is not necessarily good.

I don't see that the goal of spaceflight needs to be furthering one's country or humanity. Both of those things are a natural byproduct of increasing our spaceflight ability anyhow. Just like any other industry that pushes technology, normal profit-making should be the goal and human betterment will follow.

As for what's on the moon, the simple experience of establishing a viable colony (for lack of a better term) away from Earth will be invaluable. On top of that, the potential mineral resources are significant. Terraforming it I think is probably a no-go just because of its low gravity; it might not be able to hold onto enough atmosphere to be worthwhile and that's assuming anyone has any idea how to actually terraform something in real life.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

We wouldn't want a surface colony anyway. Too vulnerable. Underground colony perhaps with an area which touches the moons surface made out of glass or some material to let light in for plants.

Most of it should be underground to reduce the need for construction elements to trap the atmosphere.

There is no way to terraform the surface, as DE states the gravity is too weak to hold on to an atmosphere needed for any life that is terran.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The moon doesn't have any mineral resources that are valuable enough to pay for the transportation costs. Even if we got helium-3 fusion to work as a source of energy, it still wouldn't be worth it.

The moon is a stable platform to use as a staging point for materials needed in further exploration. Once we get the technology in place, launching from and returning to the moon is going to be much more efficient than having larger ships descending to earth and taking off again. Smaller, more economical, shuttles can bring folk and materials home when needed. Bulk ore and other non perishables could be splash landed in designated zones and recovered fairly easily.

Don't you folks read classic SF?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Not much of that will matter once transporter beams come online.

If such a thing is possible over long distances, it will probably be a good century or two between developing the colonization/exploration technology and the matter transmittal technology. The effort will pay for itself over time.

Besides, if we're going to go that route, the replicator technology is where I'd like to go.

Tea, Earl Gray, Hot, slice of lemon.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Right now, maybe. You're making a lot of assumptions.. most importantly that they'd necessarily be used on Earth.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Screw tea!

Hannigan, Alysson, vampire willow.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Unless we're able to build a space elevator.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Now that I think about it, either way would probably be expensive.

Private spaceflight for obvious reasons (not to mention gigantic billboards in space for penis enlargement).

But a Moon initiative would be too, I would think.

Think about it -- we set up a permanent habitation on the Moon. Soon the biggest corps set up shop. Wal-Mart and McDonald's are givens. Then everyone else wants a piece of the action. Pretty soon you are wearing a designer space suit by Tommy Hilfiger, boots by Nike, eating a McLunar Burger, listening to an iPod you bought at Wal-Mart located in Crater Tycho, rollin' in a Toyota Areola rover. Meanwhile, you live by paying an oxygen pimp whatever he charges to breath.

And to help cover the insane export fees, prices back on Earth shoot up.

The problem is you need reaction mass to get anything off the moon, which will probably need to be shipped from Earth, and an exponentially greater amount of reaction mass is needed to get that off Earth and to the moon. Even if you have some kind of advanced nuclear power generation on the moon, that still won't lift anything off it. It really depends on how much accessible water is present there, enough and you could use solar or nuclear power to split it into hydrogen and oxygen and use that to lift off, but remember you also need that water to live, as constantly shipping in water from Earth definitely won't work.

There are other ways of shipping from the moon to Earth. Remember, Earth is a gravity well.

Throwing rocks very hard is one rather appropriate analogy.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Solar power can generate enough electricity to power a mag lift accelerator to toss stuff off the moon into the Terran gravity well. Heinlein got that right in the 60s.

Just need to find the right casing material that can stand re-entry.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

*sigh* With all of these setbacks, we'll never find that Prothean cache of element zero on Mars.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

All we need to do is make it a race, we need to beat those filthy whosits to it, then national pride will make it happen.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Heh, I just joking and referring to the game industry... Perhaps this will explain things.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... abula-Rasa

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

You won't need much reaction mass to get stuff off the moon. Remember the moon lander? They built a rocket powerful enough to lift back off the moon into just the top half of it using 1960s technology.

You're also assuming that nuclear power can't be used aboard a space vessel to power an engine.

Then, as Coro mentioned, there's the fact that Earth is a gravity well itself, so once you've gotten free of the moon's gravity well it's just a matter of doing calculus to put the load where you want it and when.

Finally, hydrogen and oxygen are the first and third most abundant elements in the universe. It should not be hard to find them in outer space or on the moon.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I keep misreading the title of this thread as:

"Obama decides the Moron's not worth it."

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

We can only wish, trouble is which one.

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History of the Condom
In 1272, the Muslim Arabs invented the condom, using a goat's lower intestine.
In 1873, the British somewhat refined the idea, by taking the intestine out of the goat first.