The Glade 4.0

What does her gender have to do with the discussion? Maybe it is my night work memory but I don't remember you posting much here, or did not pay attention. But judging by your style on the Palin thread, I doubt it will be for long even in this forum.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

My thought is "I don't see the point, and no one will use it. I'm not sure what about the word 'heck' would make a difference."

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

It seems pointless. There was only one real problem with hellfire, and it's been solved for 30 days...

No sir. This most recent incident came about while Monte was banned, he's completely removed from it. Then you need to consider that after banning him, I noted more than a few posters here commenting that they believed not only was it unfair, but the moderation here as well was inconsistent. (*edit this is not to belittle the mods, of which I'm one obviously. Just to say the perception was there among multiple posters)

On top of all that, you have other posters here who have the same ability to evoke, lets say passionate, disagreement on a consistent basis. I'm convinced that is solely because of their beliefs and not their personality.

This is par for the course on political and religious debates online. But dont tell me this is all one persons fault, because that's simply untrue.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

It may not be all his fault, but he's got more than 50% of it all by himself.

As for people complaining about it, that basically comes down to "Monty may have been the chief problem, but since everyone else wasn't completly blamesless, it was unfair to ban him". It's people wasting your time with bullshit arguments as if everyone was equally the problem, which is simply not true, and not even close to it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that at least some were from people who just can't get over the idea that it must have been about his ideas rather than his behavior.

Essentially, it would be the same as claiming that it's unfair to arrest someone for bulldozing his neighbor's house because the neighbor's dog got loose and **** on the person's lawn. I mean hey, the neighbor wasn't totally blameless, so it must have been unfair to distinguish between those two acts, right?

It's no different than booting a problem guildmember. There's always That Guy that wants to complain about how unfair/inconsistent/Facist the officers are. It doesn't change the fact that he really just likes guild drama.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Well, to be fair, the moderation HAS been inconsistent (just not in the way they're complaining about). The fact that Monte is still with us is proof of that. That we can see this same pattern over and over again, on multiple incarnations of the board, and yet some people just don't see it amazes me.


Typically, that hasn't been a problem without the toxic environment Monte brings with him. Some people are going to get all butthurt because Bery loves Jesus, or because Elmo is nuts about small gov't or whatever, but it historically hasn't been much of a problem when Monte isn't around to really crank up the level of unpleasantness.

I was actually saying it's the fault of the moderators

It's not that guy, it's at least 3 in one thread I just skimmed and I'm sure there are more who dont like how the moderating has been going.




See!

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Yes, I get that there may be more than one person who is That Guy.

However, you're a reasonable guy. Your moderators are reasonable people. Tell these people to drop it. It's just people saying "I don't like it because it's not being done my way." That's not reasonable.

Setting up an alternate discussion forum where the banhammer is just going to get dropped on people for disagreeing a little too emphatically with our most intractable posters isn't reasonable either.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Well the thing is I dont know that they are all wrong. You know how in physics, you can make two contradictory statements and bother are considered equally valid based on perspective? I think it's like that. Kinda.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Whether they're right or wrong isn't really the issue. In fact, it's rather subjective. What matters is that you're being reasonable; you just set a precedent and follow it to the best of your ability. Just because there could have been other valid solutions doesn't mean yours is wrong... or that it needs to be cricticized at length.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I do not want people relying on me to police them though.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

This is so stupid. You create a seperate forum where you say you will really mod! Why not get rid of that forum and just apply that modding mindset to the original! Crazy I know, but it's an idea.

And let's face it, Monty is the main issue. Get rid of him and everything gets easier. Yeah the stupid thing azile said was unnecessary, but things like that don't happen all that often and are usually sorted out. If you think for one second that Monty is going to leave his **** just in hellfire, your crazy. It will bleed over. Someone will make a fool of him and he won't let it go. He will bring it into heck and boom, crapfest. Really, when has that guy ever just let things go? You think a " nicer" forum will make a difference?

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

See it's not just Monte.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

It's not just Monte, but Monte is the catalyst. Apparently there is nobody with the capability to keep him civil. Not his various opponents, nor his various supporters. This shouldn't be about Monte specifically, but unfortunately that's what it's becoming more and more evident it is. The creation of Heckfire is nothing more than an attempt to not have to deal with Monte. Which, I ask again, if there are no fouls in Hellfire, when will you be reinstating Monte? You cannot have it both ways. Well, you can, but there are words and phrases describing such unflatteringly. But I digress.

As to Monte's ability to act nicer in other forums, I do not know how it has been historically, but from what I have seen, only in Hellfire has Monte been a problem. He's been fine everywhere else. Now perhaps this is because there are no real topics of great contention in the other forums, and Heckfire will provide a testbed for that social experiment. But it's an experiment that doesn't need performing. We don't need multiple standards. One is good enough.

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Monte has been gone exactly a week now I believe, and people are still losing their minds over him and talking like he's still here. His return is slated for March 2nd afaik.

Although it would be interesting to bring him back and watch the reaction, I've no plans to undo what was agreed upon by the mods.

So everyone with sand in their collective vaginas over him you may want to pace yourselves.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Everyone's still going on about him because the board got locked and now there's this plan to have two boards.

The problem has been created by the attempts to solve it.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

We've established that the board getting locked had nothing to do with Monte. Monte has been gone a week. He's still got 3 weeks of ban to go. If he comes back and is "a dick" I'll ban him. This time there are no rules to dance around, or use as weapons.

I'm not going to take anyone's word for it though and I'm not interested in "catalyst". If you cant handle a single poster on a board with an ignore feature, I cant help you. In fact when he did get banned, if I recall right, it was because he and Corolinth posted about 20+ reports in the span of a few hours and only Monte got banned. All of the reports were frivolous.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Well fair enough. I'd just like to point out, though, that while the board getting locked may not have had to do with Monty directly, it's defintiely perceived that way because of the interweaving of that event and the Aizle/LK event in the explaination. I'd also point out that the ignore function doesn't ignore quotes, and so no, it really doesn't work.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

A few were legit. A few were also not by Corolinth. The signal-to-noise ratio in the reports was poor, however.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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actually I think it was decided that YOU and Monte were problems on at least on occasion.

1) Leaning on the ignore feature is, frankly, ridiculous. If that's the case, remove the moderation staff entirely, including yourself.

2) Blaming other people for responding to insults is also ridiculous.

3) None of Coro's reports were frivolous, in that they conveyed via volume the fact that he's fed up with Monty being a member here. Now, had we indicated to him (Coro) that we were dealing with the situation and he still spammed the report button, I'd agree with you.

4) Getting angry at people for reporting things, frivolous or not, on a forum where there is any subjectivity in the ruleset is tilting at windmills, as well as self-undermining. "We have these rules. There are grey areas. Don't report anything because we don't want to have to deal with it."


5) Effectively, this forum is now arbitrary rule by Mod/Admin mood, with bans potential at any time.

That's exactly why I resigned as a mod, because I won't be part of that. That's also effectively why everybody is still up in arms: they don't like what you're doing and you're doing it anyway.

The five points above are going to cause this community to bleed more members than banning Monty or the Aizle/LK issue.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

It was, but this isn't that occasion. That occasion was well over a year ago, and by a different administrator, so why you think it is relevant is a mystery.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

More than one year, I'd think.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Yes. It was, like I said WELL over a year. We know this because Monty was allowed BACK just prior to the presidential election, and for the purpose of being allowed to discuss it. He'd been gone for some time by then, so the actual answer is more like 18 months ago.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Definitely a valid point and one I've considered. My instinct is I will regret it if/when he comes back. I'm sure there will be trouble, I'm sure it will be at least partly him. I understand the easy thing to do is just permanently ban him, however for various reasons I'm not sure it's the fair thing despite so many posters and I believe all of the mods, telling me it is.



I do not personally believe in shielding people that way from content they find objectionable in a political forum. Which brings me to this:





Fair enough I didnt read them all. Every one I did read was frivolous and I saw more than a handful but...





This is an example of something reported, his post in it's entirety:

viewtopic.php?f=8&p=34355#p34355



"Progressivism and Liberalism" were linked to wiki pages. The report content was another sentence in an argument for his removal, it said:



So in short the report is for a completely innocuous, well thought out, properly sourced post, and the argument is why should he have to have done anything wrong to ban him.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe