The Glade 4.0

PS--It's Thursday.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Despite the pain and troubles you two are having, I need to say that Oonagh, you are a lucky woman and Foamy you are a good man.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

I made an appointment with the counselor for this morning about an hour from now.

P.S. Ladykate and Squirrelgirl, your comments just made me cry.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

It's ok Foamy, I was crying when I wrote what I said.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Foamy, as a man, your father's words and actions hit me hard, and I'm not even involved. I can only imagine what you're feeling. This is an awful experience to be going through in your young family's beginning. My thoughts and prayers are with you three.

Be sure that the day care is clear that no one is to pick up Sean unless you have designated them.

Foamy and Oonagh, keep doing what you need to in order to protect your family.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

This is the point where your father should get exactly what he asked for. When your father had the chance to be a reasonable father, he chose instead to be a douchebag.

I also want to point you to something else. When you needed them, Oonagh's family was there to help you. Think about that, and what it's worth to you.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Foamy, Oonagh. Neither of you deserve this. You are both wonderful people, and great parents. Your instincts are pretty much spot on, and as I see it, neither of your parents deserve anything but ostracism and scorn for the way they're behaving.

I am truly sorry for what you are going through. I can't imagine the pain you're feeling. /hugs to Oo, and /manlyfistpound to you.

Keep the faith mano. You're in the right. Don't *ever* let your parents make you believe that you're not.

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Holy shitsnacks!

My counselor assured me that I am doing the right thing. I will continue to assert myself and show them that I will not be backed into a corner so they can force resolution on me.

I will be home alone with the baby until late since tonight is a back to school night and Oonagh has to stay and do a meet and greet with the parents of her students.

I fully expect more phone calls, and to a lesser extent, another campout on my back porch. It will be hard, but I guess if they continue to harass me, I will have to call the police again.

(another thought was supposed to be here, but a phone call at work made me forget it)
(NM, I just remembered it)

Another thing that the counselor told me to do was to completely ignore all messages from either of them. Delete them, don't even listen to them. Oonagh had suggested this to me, and despite knowing she was right I listened to the one from my mother this morning. I will no longer be bothering to listen to any VMs left by me parents.

I can only hope this settles before long and they come to realize that the only immediate resolution is to give me my space. In time, I may reopen communication with them, but that is a ways off. I need time away from both of them for now and they will understand that.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Thank you all for your sound advice and No i am not ignoring the glade, but the new glade is blocked at work and I can't get on as much anymore with being back to work and mommy duty at night. I hope that I can stay strong for my family and continue to stick by my guns. I will not be undermined, argued with, or yelled at in front of my child. I also will certainly not be ignored by her while she thinks she can enjoy my baby. This was the last straw of taking abuse from her. She will not hurt me anymore and she will have to learn to deal with us and us ignoring her. It will be left on his father to get her. Which Another thing has happened this evening. His Dad, only, came over. I will have foamy post what he talked about with him tomorrow since I was not here. Ty everyone for all of your concern.

Foamy's father, suffice it to say, is a completely different person when puppeteer mother is not around.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

/mooseyhugs Oo. Stay strong!

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Holy shitsnacks!

Honestly, after him pulling his bullshit when the mother was around... saying that to Foamy and yourself... I personally think even he should be put in the bugger off category.

He was hurtful and nasty because 'mother' was there; and if he feels the need to do that kind of ****... there should be a restraining order with both of their names on it.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

The more I read on this thread, the more I agree with the idea of a restraining order. You are far more kind than I would have been in your shoes. I've cut people out of my life before, it hurts, but in the long run it's better for your well being, and the wellbeing of your wife and son.

Best of luck to both of you. I know it's hard and painful, and I wish I could say it will get better soon, but scars like the ones you have don't heal over night

I had the strength that one night I called the police. It has since waned and I don't know how I'll keep it up.

I broke down last night and met with my dad alone, no mom. I am fearing for his physical well being and sanity around my mother. She is putting him through holy hell and calling it my fault for my actions.

He did collapse to the floor the night I called the ambulance, but I don't believe it is because of my actions and his rage at me....It was because my mom was harassing him relentlessly, possibly pushing and shoving at him, and perhaps throwing things around (Think Connie Coroleone from the Godfather throwing her tirade when Carlo was setting up Sonny)

I have to cut them off and stop feeling guilt, but is it harder than I ever imagined.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

If your dad's health is an issue....let it go, let it go, let it go.
No restraining orders, etc.
Find a healthy way to set boundaries with your mom, go to counseling, whatever you have to do.
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
But don't cut your dad out if he is willing to work with you.

I know its not my place to give you that advice, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I had to say it. You don't want to live with that kind of guilt for the rest of your life if something happens to your dad.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

The moment you buckle, your mother will run roughshod all over you, your wife, and your baby. Your father made his house, now he needs to live in it.

You've cited over twenty years of family grief. That's **** ridiculous. In all that time, your father could have smacked your mother in the mouth and told her to behave herself. Your father is part of the problem. For twenty years, he was the person most capable of fixing this problem with your mother. He chose not to.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Foamy, you simply have to find the strength to keep your convictions. I see it like this. You have a long history with your mom and dad. Your family is accustomed to being (dys)functional in a particular way, and I know it's hard to break out of that. Sean, however, has not had any sort of indoctrination into your family's particular brand of crazy. Your son deserves to grow up seeing what healthy relationships look like, and at least until he's old enough to understand, to be sheltered from unhealthy ones too. He deserves to see what healthy boundaries look like, so he grows up knowing how to form those. It's incredible how much of the way a kid takes on the world is formed in the first few years. You get this golden chance right now to provide the absolute best possible nurturing environment for him, and I'm sure you can and will do it.

Having your mom around undermining your wishes, contradicting, and well, everything you've laid out here, is simply not okay. If you're having any misgivings whatsoever about what you'll put up with when it comes to yourself, or with Oonagh, think about little mini Foamy guy.

Honestly, I'd have talked to your dad too. Don't let yourself be some lifeline to normalcy for him though. You know what a drowning person does to a rescuer? Tries to crawl on top of them - not good for anyone. He needs to come to his own peace with things.

So, Jeryn's unsolicited ideas for sane living. Stick to yourselves as a family until it feels totally natural that you're pointedly excluding your folks. They've had decades to be ****ed up in, a minimum of a few months for you to just decompress is really nothing.

If you want to talk to your dad, right on, maybe even your mom. I think do it on your turf, with Oonagh and Sean at Oonagh's folks. I have it in mind that you need to be in a position of power here, interactions are on your terms, period. No neutral territory, not at their place where they feel like they're in the right saying whatever they want. Meet where if you don't like what they're saying, they're asked to leave. I don't think you'll need to call the police again - you've shown you'll do it once, just make it clear that if you are ever put in a position again where that has to happen, they will not be asked back… ever. Do what feels healthy and productive, and when it gets to where it's feeling like a bit much, tell them you need space to go process and decompress again. Working all the ****ed up out of a relationship will take years, if it ever happens at all. They need to respect your wishes, your needs, and the space you require. Both of them.

And one other thing. Please please please tell your mom that if she ever disrespects your wife in your house again, with something like "don't argue with me", then she can get the hell out. She seriously needs a solid broadside with the "know your place" stick. Your dad probably gave an almost imperceptible inch like 20, 30 years ago that didn't seem that big a deal at the time. And it's probably easier to just sort of blow stuff off when the alternative is to deal with the crazy, but easier isn't right. Lay down the law and never waver.

Anyway, just know that no matter what else, you three will be okay. That's within your power, and you don't need anyone else for it. Keep the faith.

At the point you called the police point you were no longer your parent's son but your own man. Never go back or you will become your father. Remember this.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Send Elmo over there to give them a lecture on rights.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Just send Elmo over there. No instructions, you don't want to be held culpable.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I'm with the stick to your guns. It can be hard sometimes if your are thinking about them, but instead think of you and the wife and the baby. If you want to waver even a bit, think abot them. You dad can live (and needs to live) with HIS choices. You live with yours. You made your choice they made theirs.

Stick to your guns, those living in your care deserve the best from you.

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Gorse

Second pointless 'point' removed.

Elmarnieh is correct.

You have cut the ties that bind. You know your mother will not give up until she gets her way and that is something you cannot tolerate. Going back at all is going back to the way things have been. As long as your mother refuses to get help for her problems (six months of counseling would be a good start) she will not change. Even if she does get help, even if she does change, your father is so used to enabling her madness that he will continue doing just that and she will revert back. He needs to understand what his part in this soap opera has been and he will need counseling as well to overcome his enabling ways.

Therapy will help you frame this in your mind so that you can put things in perspective. At this point in time I do not think you will be able to explain to a psychologist or psychiatrist how deep this problem is. You will keep trying to make it sound better than it is. Elmarnieh might be able to, but his testimony will be subject to doubt because he is your friend. Oonagh's testimony will be similarly suspect because she is your wife. Showing this thread to the psych might help them understand. After talking with you in person about this situation, I think a good psychiatrist might be able to make a publishable study out of this case. As I'm sure your therapist told you, counseling is a good idea for you too. This definitely qualifies as a traumatic experience.

I do not expect that your parents will ever agree to counseling. Agreeing to counseling will mean that they have to accept that they haven't been right every step of the way. Your father might be able to do that. Your mother will not.

Do not go back. Do not give up. Every time you feel yourself weakening look at your son and know that your mother will poison his mind if she has a chance. Be strong for him, for your wife, for your family. Keep a wallet sized picture of your wife and child with you at all times. Whenever you feel yourself start to weaken, pull it out and look at it.

If you absolutely must communicate with your parents about anything, go through your brother.

Listen to your therapist. Trust your therapist over me, or Elmo, or anyone here. Your therapist is a trained professional. I am at best a well intentioned amateur hack. My skills lie in understanding the situation, not healing the pain.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Well, my brother did get through to me eventually and we talked for about 1 1/2 hours.

I won't go into all of the details, but I'll touch on some of the important points.

He saw the situation as coming about recently and due to stresses on Oonagh. I explained how this was born of years, (decades) of pain and mental anguish. Oonagh stepped into it when she met me and has never had a good reason to even give my mother the benefit of the doubt, or even care about her.

Anyway, in his conversation with them, he came to the conclusion that we (Mom, Dad, Me and Oonagh) need counseling and told them that. No one yet knew that I was seeing a counselor. My mom said to my brother, "Foamy and Oonagh wouldn't agree to that."

He tells me this and I realize there is no better time now to let him and them know that I am already seeing the counselor. He agrees that I should now bring the parents into the fold and we all see the counselor together.

I called my parents house (They were most upset that they hadn't heard from me more than anything, over the past week). My dad was home. I told him what's up and he said that I need to tell my mother this. I told him to tell her to call me and I will lay it all out.

She calls me (Talking like nothing has happened). I tell her that I am seeing counseling and she thinks it's due to the events of the past week (Me storming out of the house with the baby. More of her missing the big picture) I let her know that years of this pain has come to a head and I and my wife are hurt and the counseling is to help me deal with it. I tell her that nothing will ever be resolved by us alone and family counseling is needed. I said I will call my counselor and set up something to have us all together in front of someone and she (sort of tacitly) agrees. She doesn't sound full on board with it, but she doesn't disagree. I hear her try and place blame, I deflect it and tell her we are ALL AT FAULT. I do not get into any argument with her and lay down the law being that counseling is the ONLY path at this point.

It is left at that. I am about to call the counseling group this morning to set up something and I told mom and dad that I would call them either later today or tomorrow. Until we start getting said help, Oonagh and I are basically keeping away from her.

FWIW, I honestly feel bad keeping the grandson away from them (I don't understand it, but I do) For whatever reason, I want them (Maybe my dad, moreso) to see the baby. Oonagh agreed that if they want to watch him, my dad has to come and pick him up and drop him off, ALONE. No mom. I don't want to interact with her any more than I have to until we are seeing the counselor.

Once I call counseling I will be calling my dad at work to let him know all of this. Hopefully I'll have an update in a few hours.

May this be the beginning. I want my mom to be observed by a professional. I want her behavior seen and put out there so others may know what she is capable of. The ball is in her court and she has no choice now. If she so much as balks at this, there will be no going back and my dad and brother will have to agree with me and Oonagh then keeping our distance, and probably the baby too.

*semi-sigh of relief*

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

This is good.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Foamy,

I can understand guilt associated with not allowing your parents to see Sean. I would advise that there be absolutely no contact between your family and your parents without the presence of a professional counselor. By allowing them visitation to Sean, he becomes a pawn in your mother's games.

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"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me." - Alice R. Longworth

"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash Williams